Need advice on open Mare

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ct2346
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Postby ct2346 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:55 pm

madelyn wrote:Somehow I have always had the impression that the RF was something one only did intentionally, expecting a result from, through the two direct damlines of the dam and the sire, ie on the very bottom of the pedigree of each. To see the influence, I mean. So that I would take my mare who is tail female to Rough Shod to a stallion whose dam is tail female to Rough Shod. Else it is all just pennies in a jar?


I'm with Madelyn on this one. If I have a RF quality dam in tail female, I'm looking. If not, I'm not.

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Postby TJ » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:06 pm

ct2346 wrote:
madelyn wrote:Somehow I have always had the impression that the RF was something one only did intentionally, expecting a result from, through the two direct damlines of the dam and the sire, ie on the very bottom of the pedigree of each. To see the influence, I mean. So that I would take my mare who is tail female to Rough Shod to a stallion whose dam is tail female to Rough Shod. Else it is all just pennies in a jar?


I'm with Madelyn on this one. If I have a RF quality dam in tail female, I'm looking. If not, I'm not.


Hi ct,
Didn't know we were siding up on this....just thought I was answering a question concerning qualifications for the RF within a pedigree. Sorry if I misunderstood her post. TJ

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Postby Jeff » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:36 pm

Weekend Surprise; RF factor through Something Royal. Looks pretty good to me TJ.
If this is a contest, looks like you're winning. Can I be on your team. :o

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Postby TJ » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:11 pm

Jeff wrote:Weekend Surprise; RF factor through Something Royal. Looks pretty good to me TJ.
If this is a contest, looks like you're winning. Can I be on ypur team. :o

Hi Jeff,
This is no contest...just an interesting discussion as it should be. You'd be surprised how many nice horses carry the RF.....some have become pretty good sires as well as being good race horses, leaving an indelible mark on the breed...here's a handful of RF stallions: Danehill, Nijinsky, Vice Regent, Roberto, Unbridled, Lyphard, Quiet American and Risen Star. Beside's the mare you mentioned, Weekend Surprise there was Relaxing and Magic also. Relaxing and Quiet American were two examples of what Madelyn mentioned who carry their RF mares through their sire and dam's tail female line's. All the rest mentioned do not. TJ

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Postby Jeff » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:24 pm

TJ,

Thank You, I'm surprised that such an A-list of stallions carry the RF.

I went and looked at Numbered Account, dam of Private Account and Polish Numbers and see that she also carries the RF; Selene through Pharamond and Hyperion. I really think the RF through Selene has an enormous impact on the modern day thoroughbred. I've started to notice that the multitude of pedigrees I look at, that in addition to Mumtaz Begum, that Selene is often the first female that one finds multiples of in the linebreeding summary. I find it all very exciting.

Jeff

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Postby TJ » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:52 pm

Jeff wrote:TJ,

Thank You, I'm surprised that such an A-list of stallions carry the RF.

I went and looked at Numbered Account, dam of Private Account and Polish Numbers and see that she also carries the RF; Selene through Pharamond and Hyperion. I really think the RF through Selene has an enormous impact on the modern day thoroughbred. I've started to notice that the multitude of pedigrees I look at, that in addition to Mumtaz Begum, that Selene is often the first female that one finds multiples of in the linebreeding summary. I find it all very exciting.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
Actually Numbered Account (another RF through the tail female line) herself was a decent producer...but you missed one....she too was one of those rare pedigree's with two RF's present. One which I find very important...her RF to La Troienne through 1/2 sibs Baby League and Businesslike. TJ

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Postby Jeff » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:07 am

TJ,

Wow, Numbered Account is a double RF mare through Selene and La Troinne! That's what I love about pedigrees, so many facets.

Looking at Weekend Surprise, I notice another important RF a little further back in the pedigree, and that's through Mumtaz Begum, dam of Nasrullah, and Sun Princess the dam of Royal Charger, the RF that keeps on giving.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.pedigreequery.com/freedoms+magic

Here's an interesting one, 3X3 Caps And Bells, the dam of outstanding broodmare sire Drone. Considering a 3X3 usually doesn't do anything, don't see her race record as being to bad at all. Looking at her produce record, all the pedigrees are very RICH, looks like another Pining. Love her pedigree though.

Jeff

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Postby dublino » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:19 am

The RF is just BS. Yes horses with RF sell slightly better but don't perform any better than the breed average. Studies have shown this.
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Postby Jeff » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:43 am

http://www.pedigreequery.com/numbered+account

double RF, just a bit above the breed average.

ACCOUNT NUMBER (USA) b H 1989 OGYGIAN BUCKPASSER 15-2-0-0 $33,000 1-x Edit
CONFIDENTIALITY (USA) b M 1981 LYPHARD BUCKPASSER 2-1-0-0 $13,200 1-x Edit
DANCE NUMBER (USA) b M 1979 NORTHERN DANCER BUCKPASSER 21-8-3-4 $415,418 1-x Edit
DAZZLING ACCOUNT (USA) b H 1983 MR. PROSPECTOR BUCKPASSER 5-0-0-1 $4,620 1-x Edit
HIDING AND SEEKING (USA) dkb/br H 1985 MR PROSPECTOR BUCKPASSER 0-0-0-0 Unraced 1-x Edit
POLISH NUMBERS (USA) b H 1987 DANZIG BUCKPASSER 11-4-2-1 $80,493 1-x Edit
PRIVATE ACCOUNT (USA) b H 1976 DAMASCUS BUCKPASSER 13-6-4-1 $339,396 1-x Edit
SECRET ASSET (USA) b M 1977 GRAUSTARK BUCKPASSER ?-?-?-? Unraced 1-x Edit
SECRETIVELY (USA) b H 1982 DAMASCUS BUCKPASSER 0-0-0-0 Unraced 1-x Edit
SWISS TRICK (USA) ch H 1984 DAMASCUS BUCKPASSER ?-?-?-? Unraced 1-x Edit

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http://www.pedigreequery.com/weekend+surprise

RF factor through Something Royal and just a bit further back through Mumtaz Begum the dam of Nasrullah and grandam of Royal Charger.

AMIRATI (USA) b M 1990 DANZIG SECRETARIAT 5-1-0-0 $5,456 3-l Edit
AP INDY (USA) dkb/br H 1989 SEATTLE SLEW SECRETARIAT 11-8-0-1 $2,979,815 3-l Edit
DEVONGATE (USA) b H 1994 SEATTLE SLEW SECRETARIAT 3-0-0-1 $1,188 3-l Edit
EAVESDROPPER2 (USA) b H 2000 KINGMAMBO SECRETARIAT 16-3-5-2 $167,794 3-l Edit
HONOR GRADES (USA) b H 1988 DANZIG SECRETARIAT 24-5-3-5 $173,953 3-l Edit
LASSIES LEGACY (USA) b M 1999 DEPUTY MINISTER SECRETARIAT 8-1-1-1 $33,370 3-l Edit
MYSTERY TRIP (USA) b M 2001 BELONG TO ME SECRETARIAT ?-?-?-? Unraced 3-l Edit
NORWAY (USA) ch H 1998 STORM CAT SECRETARIAT 6-0-1-1 £1,990 3-l Edit
SAITHOR (USA) b H 1991 STORM BIRD SECRETARIAT 29-5-0-1 $66,528 3-l Edit
SUMMER SQUALL (USA) b H 1987 STORM BIRD SECRETARIAT 20-13-4-0 $1,844,282 3-l Edit
TIGER RIDGE (USA) dkb/br H 1996 STORM CAT SECRETARIAT 5-0-1-1 $11,950 3-l Edit
WEEKEND IN SEATTLE (USA) b M 1993 SEATTLE SLEW SECRETARIAT 19-3-4-5 $147,245 3-l Edit
WEEKEND STORM (USA) b M 1992 STORM BIRD SECRETARIAT ?-?-?-? Unraced 3-l Edit
WELCOME SURPRISE (USA) dkb/br M 1997 SEEKING THE GOLD SECRETARIAT 9-2-6-1 $127,914 3-l


:D :D

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Postby LB » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:05 am

Jeff wrote:Looking at Weekend Surprise, I notice another important RF a little further back in the pedigree, and that's through Mumtaz Begum, dam of Nasrullah, and Sun Princess the dam of Royal Charger, the RF that keeps on giving.


It also continues to work in such horses as champion Stevie Wonderboy and multi-graded stakes winner Mad Flatter both of whom are linebred to Weekend Suprise.

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Postby Jeff » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:44 pm

http://www.pedigreequery.com/zuppardos+prince

Here's one; 10 time leading sire in Louisiana the great
Zuppardos Prince, a little RF going on here.


Mumtaz Mahal through Mumtaz Begum and Ma Mahal

and futher back in the 6th generation we see Fairy Gold through
Friar Rock and again through Fairplay sire of Man O' War.


Jeff

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Postby griff » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:13 am

AND I have a 3S X 3D to Numbered Account that can not out run a shetland pony..

Not For Love over a Polish Numbers daughter will do it ever time. And that is why I bred this speed demon.

How many RF's are that?

griff
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Postby TJ » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:23 am

griff wrote:AND I have a 3S X 3D to Numbered Account that can not out run a shetland pony..

Not For Love over a Polish Numbers daughter will do it ever time. And that is why I bred this speed demon.

How many RF's are that?

griff


Hi griff,
Sorry you've had no luck with him so far...but he is well bred and I see you recently tried to get him on the grass and it was taken off. Hope that surface change will turn him around for you. Good Luck, TJ

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Postby griff » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:06 am

Thanks TJ

Four horses beat him and he beat four horses in that last race. And we will run him on grass before we thrown in the towel.

I think he is displacing but his trainer says he is not, and he's already had the $300 +/- palate trim.. The tie forward surgery might work but we are not sure we want to put another $2,000 plus rehab into him, especially with no guarantee that is even his problem.

he has come out of ever race, except one, fit enough to race again the next day.. He's either displacing or is just not a race horse.

That family also matures very late, and Phoebus is still very immature, especially mentally.

he is a beautiful horse and Conrade's description of "Lord Jim" comes to mind when you watch him in the paddock and on his way to the gate. He will probably make someone a cracker jack hunter/jumper.

griff
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Postby TJ » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:13 am

griff wrote:Thanks TJ

Four horses beat him and he beat four horses in that last race. And we will run him on grass before we thrown in the towel.

I think he is displacing but his trainer says he is not, and he's already had the $300 +/- palate trim.. The tie forward surgery might work but we are not sure we want to put another $2,000 plus rehab into him, especially with no guarantee that is even his problem.

he has come out of ever race, except one, fit enough to race again the next day.. He's either displacing or is just not a race horse.

That family also matures very late, and Phoebus is still very immature, especially mentally.

he is a beautiful horse and Conrade's description of "Lord Jim" comes to mind when you watch him in the paddock and on his way to the gate. He will probably make someone a cracker jack hunter/jumper.

griff


Hi griff,
You're giving him every chance to show himself. Hope it works out for you and your horse. TJ