Need advice on open Mare

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Jeff
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Postby Jeff » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:21 am

http://www.pedigreequery.com/tudor+minstrel


Here's one I see often in the pedigree 5th generation and back, double RF through Gondolette and Canterbury Pilgrim.

See him often in high class pedigrees.

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Postby Jeff » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:25 am

http://call-to-post.com/cms/index.php?o ... &Itemid=18

Thanks for the link TJ, really enjoyed reading the article.


Jeff

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Postby TJ » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:00 am

Hi Jeff,
Glad you liked the article. TJ

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Postby Jeff » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:46 am

http://www.pedigreequery.com/two+lea

Two Lea, sex balanced RF through Cerito, and Cerito VERY linebred.

Two Lea, dam of Tim Tam, Kentucky Derby, Preakness winner. See that Cerito is also the dam of The Porter, so it would be interesting to see if he's in pedigrees with Alydar (On And On son of Two Lea, broodmare sire of Alydar) and Tim Tam.

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Postby Jeff » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:53 am

http://www.pedigreequery.com/ponder

1949 Kentucky Derby winner Ponder, RF through Canterbury Pilgrim dam of Chaucer and Swynford.

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Postby TJ » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:48 pm

madelyn wrote:Somehow I have always had the impression that the RF was something one only did intentionally, expecting a result from, through the two direct damlines of the dam and the sire, ie on the very bottom of the pedigree of each. To see the influence, I mean. So that I would take my mare who is tail female to Rough Shod to a stallion whose dam is tail female to Rough Shod. Else it is all just pennies in a jar?


Hi Madelyn,
I thought this RF to Rough Shod might interest you. It appears in the broodmare Mien 4x5 though full siblings Thong and Lt. Stevens. Mien is the dam of Big Brown. TJ
http://www.pedigreequery.com/mien

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madelyn
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Postby madelyn » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:28 pm

Interesting. I have dreamt of taking my mare, Express to Boston, to Stormy Atlantic.. maybe after her Cryptoclearance colt wins some big stakes.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....

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Postby TJ » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:50 pm

madelyn wrote:Interesting. I have dreamt of taking my mare, Express to Boston, to Stormy Atlantic.. maybe after her Cryptoclearance colt wins some big stakes.


Hi Madelyn,
All the best getting one of the last of the Cryptoclearance colt's to the races....here's hoping he makes his way to the top and your dream comes true. TJ

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Postby TJ » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:16 pm

I previously mentioned Frankel showing the RF in his pedigree. We now see another undefeated Euro who attempts to win the English Triple Crown for the first time in 42 years this Saturday. His name is Camelot and he carries the RF to Special (one of my personal favorites) through 1/2 siblings Fairy Bridge and Nureyev. TJ
http://www.pedigreequery.com/camelot20

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Postby Patuxet » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:19 am

TJ:

Off the top of my head -- and showing my antiquity -- these come to mind: Shenanigans, Somethingroyal, Mixed Marriage, Salaminia, Boudoir and Almahmoud.

Leon was a gifted and giving pedigree guru. Many, many moons ago I participated in a Dosage project in a workshop he led in CA. I believe the last RF pedigree Leon designed was Nobiz Like Shobiz (5x4 Swoons Tune) for Elizabeth Valando whose husband Tommy coincidentally also played a part in my life.

Thank you for pointing out Camelot whose career, unlike Frankel's, seems to tilt more toward "sport" than "industry". For the sake of the sport I'd love to see the two of them tilt in the Arc.

I too like Special and am pleased Wrote will be standing in Ocala next season.

Cheers!
Allison
"He is pure air and fire and the dull elements of earth and water never appear in him; he is indeed a horse ..." Wm. Shakespeare - Henry V

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Postby TJ » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:46 am

Patuxet wrote:TJ:

Off the top of my head -- and showing my antiquity -- these come to mind: Shenanigans, Somethingroyal, Mixed Marriage, Salaminia, Boudoir and Almahmoud.

Leon was a gifted and giving pedigree guru. Many, many moons ago I participated in a Dosage project in a workshop he led in CA. I believe the last RF pedigree Leon designed was Nobiz Like Shobiz (5x4 Swoons Tune) for Elizabeth Valando whose husband Tommy coincidentally also played a part in my life.

Thank you for pointing out Camelot whose career, unlike Frankel's, seems to tilt more toward "sport" than "industry". For the sake of the sport I'd love to see the two of them tilt in the Arc.

I too like Special and am pleased Wrote will be standing in Ocala next season.

Cheers!
Allison

Hi Allison,
Thank you for sharing those mares which created the RF in the foals you bred. Leon certainly was generous....I believe it was due to his true love of horses and his fascination of breeding.....he had so much to share. Reminds me of Harvey Penick, a wonderful golf guru who wrote the Little Red Book and the Little Blue Book on golf. In it he would say, "if you play golf, you are my friend". I believe that applies to Leon as well as all of us here on PQ..."if you like horses, you are my friend":>)
I was aware of Nobiz and his RF to Swoons Son....I know Barclay Tagg and did get to see him train some mornings, he was a sight to see. I also was aware of Nobiz' having complete representation in his pedigree. As well as remembering when Flint Schulhofer trained for the Valando's when Tom was still alive. So we could be going head to head in our antiquity:>)
I agree with your opinion and the difference between Camelot and Frankel's connections....it would be an amazing race to see both of them compete against each other in the Arc....but it won't happen:>(
Wrote will be an interesting addition to Florida...carrying the RF to Special as Camelot does. Imagine the possibility's if they bred Mien (dam of Big Brown) to Wrote creating the RF 5x5x3 to Special, through 1/2 siblings Fairy Bridge, Durrah and Nureyev plus dominant classicity in the dosage:>) TJ

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Postby madelyn » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:29 pm

TJ wrote:
madelyn wrote:Interesting. I have dreamt of taking my mare, Express to Boston, to Stormy Atlantic.. maybe after her Cryptoclearance colt wins some big stakes.


Hi Madelyn,
All the best getting one of the last of the Cryptoclearance colt's to the races....here's hoping he makes his way to the top and your dream comes true. TJ


THANKS! He is a really big boy, taking after his huge honkin' dam (who is 17.1 barefoot and trimmed and built like a brick s***house). I named him "Eight to the Bar" - he's a fast son of a gun once he gets rolling. He's been a bit of a challenge to train, hard headed like his dam. But sweet in his own way... I wanted to call him "Final Clearance" but it was taken. He's had what his dam never had, encouragement and discipline from foal-hood. She was dumped in a field as a yearling and not messed with after that until she was three. To this day, she can lock her knees, raise her head, and just DEFY you. Not mean, just immovable.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....

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Postby TJ » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:59 pm

madelyn wrote:
TJ wrote:
madelyn wrote:Interesting. I have dreamt of taking my mare, Express to Boston, to Stormy Atlantic.. maybe after her Cryptoclearance colt wins some big stakes.


Hi Madelyn,
All the best getting one of the last of the Cryptoclearance colt's to the races....here's hoping he makes his way to the top and your dream comes true. TJ


THANKS! He is a really big boy, taking after his huge honkin' dam (who is 17.1 barefoot and trimmed and built like a brick s***house). I named him "Eight to the Bar" - he's a fast son of a gun once he gets rolling. He's been a bit of a challenge to train, hard headed like his dam. But sweet in his own way... I wanted to call him "Final Clearance" but it was taken. He's had what his dam never had, encouragement and discipline from foal-hood. She was dumped in a field as a yearling and not messed with after that until she was three. To this day, she can lock her knees, raise her head, and just DEFY you. Not mean, just immovable.


Hi Madelyn,
Your very welcome...I remember Final Clearance racing in NY for John Kimmel. His name would have been so appropriate for your colt. Is Eight to The Bar as big as his mare?
I tried to get my hands on one of Crypto's last at the June sale in Ocala....the owner/breeder didn't play fair and they kept bidding him up so they took him home. I tried because he had a 5x5 RF to Pocahontas and inbred 5x5 to...believe it or not War Admiral!! He's training well in Ocala currently and I may be sorry I decided to stop when I did:>) TJ

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Postby Bill from WA » Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:17 pm

Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is like a broken winged bird that cannot fly.

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Postby Tappiano » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:39 pm

I'm quite perplexed because even those who just marginally "get it" would surely see the value of RF IF perhaps there were something other than a LOOK HOW GOOD THIS IS. If someone can step forward and show, let's say TWO out of SIX (that's still less than 50%) examples of RF where the position in the pedigree does not matter but the half siblings do, you'd probably be eligible for the nobel prize of thoroughbreds. That is rather simplified because thus far NOBODY is willing to say if there is in fact a real benchmark so let THIS thread be the driver to offer up ALL examples and let the reader decide.