random derby thoughts

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bdw0617
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random derby thoughts

Postby bdw0617 » Sat May 05, 2012 5:01 pm

a few thoughts i have and wanted to get down while they are still on my mind before i call it a night and hit the town and try not to get into too much trouble lol.


1. first and foremost, what I am really suprised by more than anything, is the fact that 165k people showed up today to watch the race. showed up to the track. to the sport that is dying and no one cares about.

Today proves to me beyond a shadow of a doubt what horse racing's strategy should be as a whole. And it has to start from the ground up. The reason they showed up today is because horse racing game them a reason to show up, not just the derby party but a damn damn good horse race with a bunch of really good horses in it. Today people showed if you build it we will come. If you produce top class horses and deep competitive races, we will show up and wager until the cows come home. Even yesterdays 112k was the 2nd highest ever for the oaks day.

Today horse racing had the center stage and put on a magnificent show with some magnificent 3YO's. No break downs, no fights, good racing from top to bottom. the under card had some horses like wine princess who will be heard from by the end of the year in bigger and better, the sprint horses brought it, the turf horses brought it, everyone brought it.


2. I am very exicted for the rest of the year beucase this group of horses has 5 legit LEGIT high level grade 1 horses in it. BM, I'll have another, Dullahan, creative cause, went the day well, hansen when he decides to act right, will run with anyone anywhere. This year's travers is going to be amazing. By the end of the year BM I would be shocked if he's not curlin/invasor/ghostzapper good. I pray to god they do not retire that horse this year. I would be sick. That's a horse that can bring em to the track right there.

3. Beyer should be ashsmed of himself with the travesty that he has done with his speed figures. they are not worth the paper they are printed on anymore and he let's his east coast bias get in the way of providing facts. lol every horse that leaves socal sprouts wings and runs 15 beyer points then their last race in santa anita. horses in florida and New york t5end to run career lows when they get on the big stage.


4. you got to train a horse to be a derby winner. I got blasted for it with union rags when i said it and it was not so much a knock on matz but i mean come on 2, really 1 and a half races after a long lay off and 1 5F prep and just toss him in a 20 horse field 10F race? the reason i had a hard time tossing IHA but eventually did pick CC over him was his work out pattern the last month. his workouts told me doug o'niel was not playing around and he felt he had a legit shot to win this race. he trained him like a derby horse.


5. I wonder who is going to go to the preakness. no horse really had any b ad luck or excuses, the pace was so fast everyone got a good triop because everyone was spread out. I doubt BM goes to the preakness. I see him being pointed to the belmont. I would think the rest of the top 5 would go as well. I would expect hansen to go as well that track plays more to his advantage and if he can get the lead he could shake lose.

6. Leaperoux could find traffic in the middle of the desert lol i'm convinced of it. Union rags started the race on the outside next to last at first call, yet somehow by the time they go to the next turn he was boxed in.


all in all great day, hope you made some money or at least didn't lose too much and let's do it again in 2 weeks
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
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Postby Barbaro06 » Sat May 05, 2012 6:25 pm

Hey bdw!

It was an awesome Derby day...the crowd was amazing to see. And wonderful to see a record crowd for the Oaks...history made yesterday for sure. The field was stellar and I believe too that it's going to be an interesting summer.

I believe Leparoux blew yet another race on Union Rags. Yeah, he could find traffic in the desert. The isolated camera told of Rags misfortune. He had to use up a lot of gas to get around tiring horses and get out of the boxes Leparoux got him in. Rags wound up sixth, but I believe he could have done better. If I were Matz I would get another jock.

It will be interesting to see who continues on to Baltimore.

All in all, a good day.
A horse gallops with his lungs
Perseveres with his heart
And wins with his character. --Tesio

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Postby karenkarenn » Sat May 05, 2012 6:40 pm

Did you see how everyone was all spread out on the track giving everyone room on the back stretch . Then in the last 1/4 of a mile 12 or the 20 couldn't complete 1mile and a quarter.

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Postby ratherrapid » Sat May 05, 2012 6:51 pm

might agree they'd have to be considering a jock change for U. Rags, and maybe also a trainer, although the vids show Rags doing a little more than the PPs show. sometimes it's hard to tell.

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Postby bdw0617 » Sat May 05, 2012 7:02 pm

ratherrapid wrote:might agree they'd have to be considering a jock change for U. Rags, and maybe also a trainer, although the vids show Rags doing a little more than the PPs show. sometimes it's hard to tell.


mind you my point about UR never was that he would never be able to run 10F. it was that he was not given the proper foundation to do so and he's not genetically wired to want to do so. With that said I think the derby will end up being the tightener he needed and if Matz has the guts to make a change i would seriously look at him in the preakness. he ran 6th on nothing but class. horse has talent and was IMHO Probably in the top 3 worst managed horses going into the derby.

what's funny about JL is we had this exact same conversation last year when he was on that other horse whose name i can't remember, the one who won the florida derby and lost the allowance in his come back this year. same deal. traffic, bad ride. and come January everyone will forgive him yet again.
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Postby zinn21 » Sat May 05, 2012 7:25 pm

I heard a great story today at GGF on how Mario Guiterrez ended up riding the Derby winner, I'll Have Another. Mario as you might have heard rides mainly in the Northwest at Hastings Park. Mario rides first call for trainer Troy Taylor. Prior to this last winter Taylor and Gutierrez had been spending their winters at GGF. This last winter he applied for GGF stalls and was denied. I won't reveal the reason he was denied but he subsequently applies for stalls at Santa Anita and they approved him stalls. Gutierrez who had been riding at GGF the last few winters, follows Taylor to Santa Anita to ride first call for Taylor and the rest is history. He gets the mount on I'll Have Another and today wins the Derby... So Mario can thank Troy Taylor who can thank the powers that be at GGF for denying Troy stalls sending Taylor to SA this last winter which ultimately lead Gutierrez to the opportunity to ride on the winner of this year's Kentucky Derby...

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Postby bdw0617 » Sat May 05, 2012 8:02 pm

wow.
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Postby bdw0617 » Sat May 05, 2012 11:16 pm

Barbaro06 wrote:Hey bdw!

It was an awesome Derby day...the crowd was amazing to see. And wonderful to see a record crowd for the Oaks...history made yesterday for sure. The field was stellar and I believe too that it's going to be an interesting summer.

I believe Leparoux blew yet another race on Union Rags. Yeah, he could find traffic in the desert. The isolated camera told of Rags misfortune. He had to use up a lot of gas to get around tiring horses and get out of the boxes Leparoux got him in. Rags wound up sixth, but I believe he could have done better. If I were Matz I would get another jock.

It will be interesting to see who continues on to Baltimore.

All in all, a good day.
lol i'm going to start calling him lateproux . i think that's more appropriate
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”

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Postby Barcaldine » Sun May 06, 2012 4:44 am

I found it interesting that all three Grade One stakes winners yesterday at Churchill were produced by working man's breeding stock. The sires (FLOWER ALLEY, SPANISH STEPS and BOWMANS BAND) stood for $10,000, $2,000 and $1,500, or thereabouts. None of the dams was remarkable on the racetrack, as a producer, or by pedigree.

This is why our sport is so great. Good racehorses can come from anywhere.

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Postby mightyhijames » Sun May 06, 2012 5:39 am

Barcaldine wrote:I found it interesting that all three Grade One stakes winners yesterday at Churchill were produced by working man's breeding stock. The sires (FLOWER ALLEY, SPANISH STEPS and BOWMANS BAND) stood for $10,000, $2,000 and $1,500, or thereabouts. None of the dams was remarkable on the racetrack, as a producer, or by pedigree.

This is why our sport is so great. Good racehorses can come from anywhere.


and there you have it, the reason us little breeders keep soldiering on, trying to improve our stock and hoping for 'the big one', whatever one's definition of 'the big one' may be.

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Postby Crystal » Sun May 06, 2012 6:08 am

I found it interesting that Mario said he dropped out of school to ride horses at the track.. A La Calvin Borel style move.. Again more Athletics getting paid
when they havent finished school.. nice.

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Postby Sysonby » Sun May 06, 2012 6:44 am

zinn21 wrote:I heard a great story today at GGF on how Mario Guiterrez ended up riding the Derby winner, I'll Have Another. Mario as you might have heard rides mainly in the Northwest at Hastings Park. Mario rides first call for trainer Troy Taylor. Prior to this last winter Taylor and Gutierrez had been spending their winters at GGF. This last winter he applied for GGF stalls and was denied. I won't reveal the reason he was denied but he subsequently applies for stalls at Santa Anita and they approved him stalls. Gutierrez who had been riding at GGF the last few winters, follows Taylor to Santa Anita to ride first call for Taylor and the rest is history. He gets the mount on I'll Have Another and today wins the Derby... So Mario can thank Troy Taylor who can thank the powers that be at GGF for denying Troy stalls sending Taylor to SA this last winter which ultimately lead Gutierrez to the opportunity to ride on the winner of this year's Kentucky Derby...


I know that's the story but you have to wonder why Golden Gate would deny anyone stalls and then another track owned by the same parent company would give the same people stalls. Particularly when Golden Gate is running short fields and some races in the book haven't filled for months and the horses from Hastings would seem a more natural fit up North. Also Taylor does run at Golden Gate so unless he's shipping all of them North, you'd have to think he had some horses on the grounds at some point this winter.

I do know the shift back to dirt was an attraction for some people -- maybe not Troy Taylor--to try Santa Anita instead of Golden Gate and this winter we've seen horses from some of the Arizona guys like Diodoro and Owens and Washington guys like Belvoir when I really don't remember that being the case in years past.

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Postby casallc » Sun May 06, 2012 7:26 am

Crystal wrote:I found it interesting that Mario said he dropped out of school to ride horses at the track.. A La Calvin Borel style move.. Again more Athletics getting paid
when they havent finished school.. nice.


As opposed to all of those in professional sports with college degrees that are unable to read or write and are harder to comprehend than Mario? Higher education for a jockey would be absurd. Most of them are way too smart to follow instructions now.
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Postby Sysonby » Sun May 06, 2012 7:36 am

casallc wrote:
Crystal wrote:I found it interesting that Mario said he dropped out of school to ride horses at the track.. A La Calvin Borel style move.. Again more Athletics getting paid
when they havent finished school.. nice.


As opposed to all of those in professional sports with college degrees that are unable to read or write and are harder to comprehend than Mario? Higher education for a jockey would be absurd. Most of them are way too smart to follow instructions now.


The problem of course is a Michael Martinez/Ron Turcotte accident is potentially lurking out there for all of them. A good agent/business manager who assists them to put their money aside in investments is key and education can sure help them navigate the world off the horse.

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Postby kimberley mine » Sun May 06, 2012 8:12 am

Sysonby wrote:
The problem of course is a Michael Martinez/Ron Turcotte accident is potentially lurking out there for all of them. A good agent/business manager who assists them to put their money aside in investments is key and education can sure help them navigate the world off the horse.


Hear, hear. And on top of that, part of that education is learning how to present oneself in a professionally acceptable manner to the high-level racing circuit, media and public. With enough talent, typically an athlete won't have to worry about not getting jobs, but with careful professional skill, the RIGHT opportunities with the RIGHT people are much more likely to come in and stay in.

Think Troy Polamalu and Michael Vick. If both were playing and both were to suffer a career-ending injury tomorrow, which one would get the job as a talking head with ESPN? The one with a reputation as an all-around good guy who keeps a garden, plays the piano, never swears, and has great hair, or the one with a conviction for dogfighting and illegal gambling?

And Casallc, I realise your point is at least a little bit sarcastic, but for an independent contractor to learn that shutting up and following the instructions is the key to keeping those contracts coming in is a critical bit of professional education. A good agent/business manager can help with that, too.