Does anyone have a race record on JACK PAINE II, foaled 1919 (Rogon - Figent x Hastings)?
He was bred in Montana and sired at least 1 Thoroughbred foal in 1923. He later came to Southern California and was used in a non-Thoroughbred breeding program.
Any information will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you, Pat
Jack Paine II
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I have only intermittent chart books from the era. The 1922 index doesn't contain a Jack Paine II. So that probably leaves 1921 as his only racing year, if at all.
His dam Figent was a racer on the western circuit in the early 1910s. I ran across her name while doing research on some of the old NW tracks in BC, ID, MT and UT. (She also ran at Juarez, and at the old Spokane Fair in 1912.)
This was in an era after racing was shut down in CA and NY, and decent thoroughbreds scattered anywhere for a purse. Many race records of the times look similar to that of Pan Zareta's. I could get some more info on her if you are interested.
Rogon was an August Belmont colt that develops google hits for 1910 in NY (Saratoga, Sheepshead, etc.), and some 1911 ones at various US and Canadian tracks.
The original Jack Paine was a racer from the same era and the same racetracks as Figent.
His dam Figent was a racer on the western circuit in the early 1910s. I ran across her name while doing research on some of the old NW tracks in BC, ID, MT and UT. (She also ran at Juarez, and at the old Spokane Fair in 1912.)
This was in an era after racing was shut down in CA and NY, and decent thoroughbreds scattered anywhere for a purse. Many race records of the times look similar to that of Pan Zareta's. I could get some more info on her if you are interested.
Rogon was an August Belmont colt that develops google hits for 1910 in NY (Saratoga, Sheepshead, etc.), and some 1911 ones at various US and Canadian tracks.
The original Jack Paine was a racer from the same era and the same racetracks as Figent.
Some additional material. I have photocopies of the "J"s from the indexes of the DRF chart books for 1921 and 1923. Jack Paine II does not appear in either. It leads me to believe that he was unraced, or raced only at unrecognized fair meets or the like. After breeding in 1922, it's still possible that he was 5 yo maiden in 1924, but highly unlikely.
His dam Figent ran 40 (officially, and at least one unofficially) times in 1912 as a 6 yo, and the last listed owner was F. D. Howard. She ran 12 times in 1913 without hitting the board, and the last known owners were "Howard Bros."
His dam Figent ran 40 (officially, and at least one unofficially) times in 1912 as a 6 yo, and the last listed owner was F. D. Howard. She ran 12 times in 1913 without hitting the board, and the last known owners were "Howard Bros."
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Steward,
My records indicate that he had non-Thoroughbred foals (registered in other breeds) in Southern California in 1933, 1941 and 1942.
These foals were born within similar areas of each other...long Beach, Santa Ana, and Whittier.
Its a shame, for me and other researchers, that the Jockey Club does not keep record of transfers. I have to follow the "foal" trail.
If by chance JACK PAINE II was owned by Fred H. Bixby of Long Beach, CA in his early years, chances are he was not raced. Even though Bixby used Jockey Club horses in his breeding program, there are no indications that Bixby was interesed in racing...more interested in breeding good solid working ranch horses, and of course his beloved Shire's.
May I ask what the DRF stands for (as in DRF Chart Books). I am familiar with Ruff's Guide, Goodwins Guide and of course the Amerian Produce Records.
Did you by chance have anything on CHEPPY, a 1918 stallion (Bouvard - Halcyon Cotton x Verge d'Or). He is another stallion that Bixby used. He was bred by George S. Patton, Jr in California(later known as General George Patton).
I have found only 2 non-Thoroughbreds by him, both bred by Bixby and their foal years are not given...however research indicates one may have been born as early as 1922, but chances are several years later and the other in 1925ish.
Pat
Pat
My records indicate that he had non-Thoroughbred foals (registered in other breeds) in Southern California in 1933, 1941 and 1942.
These foals were born within similar areas of each other...long Beach, Santa Ana, and Whittier.
Its a shame, for me and other researchers, that the Jockey Club does not keep record of transfers. I have to follow the "foal" trail.
If by chance JACK PAINE II was owned by Fred H. Bixby of Long Beach, CA in his early years, chances are he was not raced. Even though Bixby used Jockey Club horses in his breeding program, there are no indications that Bixby was interesed in racing...more interested in breeding good solid working ranch horses, and of course his beloved Shire's.
May I ask what the DRF stands for (as in DRF Chart Books). I am familiar with Ruff's Guide, Goodwins Guide and of course the Amerian Produce Records.
Did you by chance have anything on CHEPPY, a 1918 stallion (Bouvard - Halcyon Cotton x Verge d'Or). He is another stallion that Bixby used. He was bred by George S. Patton, Jr in California(later known as General George Patton).
I have found only 2 non-Thoroughbreds by him, both bred by Bixby and their foal years are not given...however research indicates one may have been born as early as 1922, but chances are several years later and the other in 1925ish.
Pat
Pat
Q: May I ask what the DRF stands for (as in DRF Chart Books). I am familiar with Ruff's Guide, Goodwins Guide and of course the Amerian Produce Records.
The Daily Racing Form had employees (at every significant racetrack) who produced charts of the running of the races. Each race had its own chart with its own index number. It was the way that DRF could compile information for its daily past performance publications throughout the country.
Every month, the chart book had two sections, one containing the charts for the month, and one for the list of horses (In alphabetical order) who had run up to that date that year. For each horse, there was a list of the index numbers for each race for which that horse had run throughout that year. The December books contained all of the index numbers for every horse that had run.
The information that I posted was based on the December chart book indexes for 1921, 1922, and 1923. Since Jack Paine II didn't have any entries, it is logical to conclude that he didn't run at any significant racetrack.
There are large collections of chart books at the Keeneland Library and the CTBA library east of Santa Anita across Huntington Place street. Anyone can use them. There are also collections at Saratoga and at the WTBA library at Emerald Downs. Access is restricted at the latter, and I don't know what the rules are for the former. There are probably a few others.
I will add that, on rare occasions, the numbers achieved by compiling DRF information does not reconcile with information posted on this site. (I presume that the info here is from APRs.) I have never seen an APR, do not know how the numbers are generated, and cannot give an answer to why the numbers don't match. I've compiled my own data, and for 3 or 4 horses out of 2000+ there is a discrepancy of a race or two each.
The Daily Racing Form had employees (at every significant racetrack) who produced charts of the running of the races. Each race had its own chart with its own index number. It was the way that DRF could compile information for its daily past performance publications throughout the country.
Every month, the chart book had two sections, one containing the charts for the month, and one for the list of horses (In alphabetical order) who had run up to that date that year. For each horse, there was a list of the index numbers for each race for which that horse had run throughout that year. The December books contained all of the index numbers for every horse that had run.
The information that I posted was based on the December chart book indexes for 1921, 1922, and 1923. Since Jack Paine II didn't have any entries, it is logical to conclude that he didn't run at any significant racetrack.
There are large collections of chart books at the Keeneland Library and the CTBA library east of Santa Anita across Huntington Place street. Anyone can use them. There are also collections at Saratoga and at the WTBA library at Emerald Downs. Access is restricted at the latter, and I don't know what the rules are for the former. There are probably a few others.
I will add that, on rare occasions, the numbers achieved by compiling DRF information does not reconcile with information posted on this site. (I presume that the info here is from APRs.) I have never seen an APR, do not know how the numbers are generated, and cannot give an answer to why the numbers don't match. I've compiled my own data, and for 3 or 4 horses out of 2000+ there is a discrepancy of a race or two each.
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Well DAH, how stupid am I...Daily Racing Form of course!
I used to use the CTBA many times in the 1970's, 1980's because I lived fairly close to it....wonderful Library....
On my visits to family in the Riverside area....I also made a trip to CTBA. Spent the better part of the day there just a few years ago.
I and a friend were the only visitors there, on my last visit to the Library. It used to be so very busy in the 1970's & 80's...but with the internet and the computer, much information can be obtained without visiting. I personally like the old magazines and books to refer to.
Unfortunately the Librian left early, and there were books locked up that I could not view. Had I know she was to leave early, I would have check those special books first....oh well...
Anyway, I appreciate all you help. I did re-find another JACK PAINE II unregistered mare who was the dam of another AQHA mare. I also think that unregistered unnamed mare was a Bixby-bred. I had a friend, now deceased who said Bixby used JACK PAINE II quite a bit, in fact one of Bixby's daughter eluded to that....so I'm thinking he may actually have owned or leased the stallion...but no documentation at this point.
Pat
I used to use the CTBA many times in the 1970's, 1980's because I lived fairly close to it....wonderful Library....
On my visits to family in the Riverside area....I also made a trip to CTBA. Spent the better part of the day there just a few years ago.
I and a friend were the only visitors there, on my last visit to the Library. It used to be so very busy in the 1970's & 80's...but with the internet and the computer, much information can be obtained without visiting. I personally like the old magazines and books to refer to.
Unfortunately the Librian left early, and there were books locked up that I could not view. Had I know she was to leave early, I would have check those special books first....oh well...
Anyway, I appreciate all you help. I did re-find another JACK PAINE II unregistered mare who was the dam of another AQHA mare. I also think that unregistered unnamed mare was a Bixby-bred. I had a friend, now deceased who said Bixby used JACK PAINE II quite a bit, in fact one of Bixby's daughter eluded to that....so I'm thinking he may actually have owned or leased the stallion...but no documentation at this point.
Pat
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Pan Zareta
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