If Zenyatta were yours...

[kimberley mine]

Kimberly Mine.

What about Giacomo?

Aside from him being raced by the Mosses, I don't see any good reason to put her to him.

He was a one-paced grinder who needed a perfect race setup to win, no speed up front, and nothing in his breeding that is an insta-fit (e.g. Out of Place with Kris S mares). More than anything else, he needs Blushing Groom, Mt Livermore, and Housebuster mares with speed.

Tiago was the better runner of the two, but he's a big big big lad (typical Pleasant Colony line) and probably way too big for her.

[Tairaterces]

Kimberly Mine.

What about Giacomo?

Aside from him being raced by the Mosses, I don't see any good reason to put her to him.

He was a one-paced grinder who needed a perfect race setup to win, no speed up front, and nothing in his breeding that is an insta-fit (e.g. Out of Place with Kris S mares). More than anything else, he needs Blushing Groom, Mt Livermore, and Housebuster mares with speed.

Tiago was the better runner of the two, but he's a big big big lad (typical Pleasant Colony line) and probably way too big for her.

Thank you km . . . . . you're a gem!!!

[jagger]

If Zenyatta were mine, I would let her do what she likes to do. I would let her race another season.

[ak1]

what about Candy Ride?

[Tairaterces]

If Zenyatta were mine, I would let her do what she likes to do. I would let her race another season.

So you believe in squeezing the lemon dry . . . . . like Jess Jackson did with Rachel Alexandra??

[Tairaterces]

what about Candy Ride?

Good ???? ak1

Oh kimberly mine . . . . ~smile~

[jagger]

Tairaterces,

Has nothing to do with "squeezing the lemon dry" I really doubt if the Moss's need the money....they have lots of other lemons, I'm sure. The real issue is that you would be removing her from an environment that she clearly loves. I would have been very upset if someone decided that I didn't need to play golf any more just because I was 40 or 50 or 60. Probably NOT all horses love to run but clearly, she does....so why deprive her of this just because she is 6? Early retirement is just another nasty American notion. 6 year olds race the world wide. Just my 2 cents.

Have a nice day.

[Affirmed1]

I would not breed to Candy Ride. He has small feet, and you wouldn't want to risk getting a big foal with small feet.

What is it about Tiznow that you think is wrong from a physical or other standpoint?

[springboro]

I'd go with AP Indy or one of his sons, like Pulpit.
Medaglia d'or
Hard Spun

Dynaformer
Candy Ride
Tiznow

[kimberley mine]

I would not breed to Candy Ride. He has small feet, and you wouldn't want to risk getting a big foal with small feet.

What is it about Tiznow that you think is wrong from a physical or other standpoint?

Tiznow is a great big moose of a horse, who is siring large horses. That's fine for a balanced 15-3 or 16h mare, but not for a very large mare like Zenyatta. The risk would be a big, heavy moose who couldn't get out of its own way. He also is a touch more downhill than I like. Pedigree-wise, his best runners tend to be linebred to In Reality (4 of his top 10 earners), Seattle Slew (2), Papila (2), or the genetic siblings Table Play and Poker via Turkoman (2). Zenyatta has none of those.

To AK and Tairaterces, re: Candy Ride, pedigree-wise it's fine. He adds speed that she lacks, but it's not a fish-or-fowl mating in that he carried that speed over a distance. As mentioned earlier, though, the physical matchup might not work. Feet are suspect, and also Candy Ride was a big fragile on the track. I wouldn't want to breed to him until I've seen what she throws...if her first three foals are all built like lavatory facility made of brick with serving platters for feet, go for it! but not right off the tip.

[SemparQuel]

My ideas, but really without serious arguments:
1- the great european sprinter OASIS DREAM
2- the very good american sprinter ZENSATIONAL
3- SMOKE GLACKEN

What about them, kimberley ?

[kimberley mine]

My ideas, but really without serious arguments:
1- the great european sprinter OASIS DREAM
2- the very good american sprinter ZENSATIONAL
3- SMOKE GLACKEN

What about them, kimberley ?

1. If she's going to a Green Desert line stallion, forget Oasis Dream and go to Cape Cross. I think it's telling that even with a mare of the quality of Urban Sea, that her best foal was by him. He can get a lightning-fast sprinter (and not cheap speed either) or a brilliant classic-distance horse, and has been a pretty consistently good sire. His fillies are generally better than his colts, but when he gets a good colt, watch out.

I don't see any point in putting her to a dyed-in-the-wool sprinter. She doesn't have any up-front speed, but I think it's better to send her to a sire who adds speed, rather than one who is speed, if that makes sense. This is especially true when you have another stallion from the same line who (IMO) blows Oasis Dream clear out of the water in the shed.

2. I see nothing in Zensational's pedigree that is a compelling argument in his favour, and his sprinting style doesn't excite me either. Being by Unbridled's Song, I also question whether the physical would work. UBS tends to sire large horses...if he's a big one, I'd pass right there.

3. Smoke Glacken is not the right physical type. Same as Distorted Humor...both are good horses and good sires (and DH is excellent) but not right for her.

I also think he's not going to do what you were thinking, e.g. add speed to the foal. Think Persistently.

[Joltman]

Kimberly Mine.

What about Giacomo?

Aside from him being raced by the Mosses, I don't see any good reason to put her to him.

He was a one-paced grinder who needed a perfect race setup to win, no speed up front, and nothing in his breeding that is an insta-fit (e.g. Out of Place with Kris S mares). More than anything else, he needs Blushing Groom, Mt Livermore, and Housebuster mares with speed.

Tiago was the better runner of the two, but he's a big big big lad (typical Pleasant Colony line) and probably way too big for her.

KM

I was led to believe that problems arise when you mix sizes (breed big to smaller). I would think you would need a big stallion for her???

jm

[kimberley mine]

KM

I was led to believe that problems arise when you mix sizes (breed big to smaller). I would think you would need a big stallion for her???

jm

There's mixing sizes, and then there's mixing sizes. Putting a 16.1 stallion (Giant's Causeway) to a 17hh mare is not the same as putting a 15.2 stallion (Rahy) to a 17hh mare.

Other things to consider are the physical builds and what size a stallion will throw. If you have a very large, very coarse stallion, breeding him to a large, coarse mare probably isn't a good idea. It's not a surprise to me that Arch has done so well with Seeking the Gold, and for that matter Red Ransom and Al Mufti with more refined, less heavy mares. As far as what a stallion will throw, if you have somebody like Tiznow or Dynaformer who sire a very large horse, you risk getting one who is just TOO big.

[Affirmed1]

Good info and analysis. I appreciate that you took the time to share.