stallions from 12b

[onalimb]

Where would I find if any, stallions from family 12b ?? thanks

[KBEquine]

Where would I find if any, stallions from family 12b ?? thanks

Turkey (isn't that where Victory Gallop is?). If the race mare Ouija Board has a son who stands at stud, that will be another option. Cox's Ridge is, of course, long gone, or I'd suggest him.

I wish that The Blood Horse & the TB Times stallion directories would add a family number to all the information they offer - I look for things like this, too, and that would make life easier. Our one stallion isn't 12b, but many of his ancestors seem to work well with 12b, which is why I even paid attention.

Best of luck finding the stallion you want.

[aethervox]

The following stallions are family 12b:

City Place (2000)
Concerto (1994)
Corporate Report (1988)
Flame Thrower (1998)
Idiot Proof (2004)
Montbrook (1990)
Political Force (2003)
Songandaprayer (1998)
Traffic Circle (1993)

[onalimb]

Thank you ...

[Bettina]

Hallo,
here in Europe the family 12-b is mostly represented by La Greele (by Helicon) bred in France. From her family is the stallion Rialto, who intun is thew sire of Wild Risk and the broodmare Sif (Sicambre/Snob). To the same branch belong s Ibn Bey (Sire), Roseate tern, Red CamelliaRed Fort, Red Carnation etc.

This family was introduced to my Homecountry with the import of Tosco bella (by Tosco) and is quite succesful, but yet no one which got a qualification for stallion duties. The best winners are Takin (by Formidable), Twin Set (Second Set), Toscarimos (Tarim), Tres Heureux , Tres Rock Danon etc.

Btw, the only other important broodmare with Helicon in her pedigree is none other than La Troienne.

with regards from Germany,
Bettina

[diomed]

12-b is also an extremely successful family for the American Quarterhorse.
Mostly through Tranby Mare(1840). This mare's most famous descendant is Vandal. He appears splattered all over American TB and QH pedigrees.

[brogers]

I wish that The Blood Horse & the TB Times stallion directories would add a family number to all the information they offer - I look for things like this, too, and that would make life easier. Our one stallion isn't 12b, but many of his ancestors seem to work well with 12b, which is why I even paid attention.

The reason why the Jockey Club, Blood Horse and TTimes don't add family numbers is because they are erroneous. While the General Stud Book is a great resource, there are quite a lot of errors in it - some as late as the 1970's. Every Stud book around the world has errors in it.

The fact that these errors exist also points to what a complete waste of time any inbreeding theory using Bruce Lowe numbers is. Have a look at the following scientific paper. It was published in 2002 and there is a follow up paper due in 2011 that qualifies the errors found.

http://www.equinome.com/publications/Hi ... 202002.pdf

Bruce Lowe had a good idea, to classify the stud book by their female line, unfortunately there are too many errors to make his classifications stick (there are not nearly as many female families as he, Goos, Toru-Shirai say there are) and any use of a pedigree theory around these numbers isn't worth the paper it is written on.

[KBEquine]

I wish that The Blood Horse & the TB Times stallion directories would add a family number to all the information they offer - I look for things like this, too, and that would make life easier. Our one stallion isn't 12b, but many of his ancestors seem to work well with 12b, which is why I even paid attention.

The reason why the Jockey Club, Blood Horse and TTimes don't add family numbers is because they are erroneous. While the General Stud Book is a great resource, there are quite a lot of errors in it - some as late as the 1970's. Every Stud book around the world has errors in it.

The fact that these errors exist also points to what a complete waste of time any inbreeding theory using Bruce Lowe numbers is. Have a look at the following scientific paper. It was published in 2002 and there is a follow up paper due in 2011 that qualifies the errors found.

http://www.equinome.com/publications/Hi ... 202002.pdf

Bruce Lowe had a good idea, to classify the stud book by their female line, unfortunately there are too many errors to make his classifications stick (there are not nearly as many female families as he, Goos, Toru-Shirai say there are) and any use of a pedigree theory around these numbers isn't worth the paper it is written on.

Actually, I use them to look up recent family members, not for their originally intended purpose. In a catalog pedigree showing just the highlights of the past 1 to 4 generations, it's an easy way to find "some of the cousins" and other information.

Just like the stallion nicks, they are a tool & a means to an end, not a be-all, end-all.

Admittedly, if there were a different set of female family numbers created today, based on DNA so they would be more accurate, I'd be even happier to use them.