Stallion Value: Biggest BANG for the BUCK

[BJ]

George, I am really new to this GSV thing. Please excuse my ignorance but I would like to ask about my mare, her GSV factor is quite high! Hoping that this bears well for her foal that she had before she died. I know it is only numbers but I have to start somewhere right? I believe the GSV was 79. Anyway, her name was Briar Halo. Thanks for any explanation or insight on this.
Claire

Hi Claire...
I like the 5x5 to Hyperion and the 4x5 to Bold Ruler of the foal! What a beautifully bred mare Briar Halo was!

Don't know why George didn't respond YET. Hope it doesn't have anything to do with "gender". Here is a link to some GSV explanations: http://www.members.shaw.ca/angoss1/gras ... tical.html

[FOS]

hi all

Must add..the first time I saw Smart Strike was shortly after his retirement to stud.

I found his front-end Extremely difficult to "get by"...and still do.

My recommendation...if you like Smart Strike...buy one that appeals to you...

...but I suggest that you think long and hard before signing a contract and breeding to him for $35,000.

For commercial breeders especially...I find him a particularly risky stallion to breed to (All Things Considered).

I suggest that the talk of dreams coming true is rarely (if ever) connected to his name (or his offspring)...and that ingredient (to a large degree) is what drives this game.

Respectfully

[briarhalo]

BJ thank you so much for responding to my post. My mare meant so much to me and went through quite a bit with the colt, 4 days before we could get milk into him (finally found a nurse mare) then strangles and pnemonia at 2 months, herniated navel surg at 4. But he sure is a survivor and has proven that he definitely has heart! I bought the mare as a yearling to be a hunter (seller thought she had bog spavin and was only good to be a pasture ornament). Boy were they wrong, never had a lame day. But that is why she never raced. Thanks a bunch for your comments. Sincerely, Claire

[briarhalo]

Oh, by the way, the picture on my avatar is the colt at only 1 year old! 16 hands and growing....lol

[BJ]

Oh, by the way, the picture on my avatar is the colt at only 1 year old! 16 hands and growing....lol

Quite the handsome boy, Claire! You know, you can post/upload your pictures for free at Webshots.com. If you don't want to do that, you can email me pics of the mare and colt & I can post them and send you the link for their photos. After all, I owe you big time for putting me in touch with the next door neighbor of War Medal

[briarhalo]

Thank you BJ....I have to get a bunch of pics rescanned-beleive it or not the disc that I had with all her pics on-during her pregnancy and after was tossed in the garbabge by someone who had to fix our computer at work. Nice eh? I am so glad everything worked out for you with War Medal and Wendy is definitely the best. I actually have a beautiful filly by her stallion and will be bringing my mare back up there as soon as I can find some shipping to Fort Erie that I can afford. And anytime I can help someone find a past horse I am happy to do so. Thank you for your words on "Houston", my little bundle of joy.....lol.

[sb]

Even though I cannot afford him, I hypomated my mare Captive Pro by Proper Reality ex Captive Great by Great Above with Smart Strike, . I see something interesting in this hypo-mating, but maybe it's not to you'all...

I get NODOUBLE 4S x 4D [No Calss//Proper Princess] in the first five gens.

What's interesting to me is that there are more horses from the *A* family that I have seen so far, one of which is duplicated with Nodouble,of course , as his dam, Abla-Jay is from family A-1.

Captive Pro is from family A-4, and so is OUTING CLASS . They share BETTY DERR (USA)* dam of Iron Maiden and Judy-Rae, respectively. And while Outing Class wasn't setting the world on fire as a sire, he IS the broodmare sire of the great NO CLASS from the fabulous family 23-b.

And there is Ttere is also family A-13 by way of Smartaire, dam of SMARTEN-

I was interested in Tenpins by Smart Strike, but someone told me that he was very unimpressive and crooked-legged. His picture sure looks nice, lol.

Well, it never hurts taken a look!

Sabine

[Pete]

Hi all,

Commercial appeal is often based on a few foals. No sire illustratest this better than Awesome Again, who on the basis of three foals, Ghostzapper, Wilko and Toccet now commands a $125,000 fee, despite inferior numbers of winners (33% from foals), 2yo winners (11%) and SWs (4%) (from 209 foals).

I sent a client to Smart Strike before this year because they can and will race their foals that they feel won't sell as well as they would like. Smart Strike's more modest commercial appeal is largely based on the fact that despite solid numbers, 57% winners, 18% 2yo winners and 11% SWs, his best haven't won first tier races in the States. He hasn't been a factor in the classics nor the Breeder's Cup races. Soaring Free, Fleetstreet Dancer and Tenpins don't have the marquee value of Awesome Again's best. Simply by their numbers you'd expect their fees to be reversed.

LSB, I don't believe that the exchange of Canadian funds will be a big factor going forward with an exchange of $1.25 or less (as it has been for some time now). Don't look for Smart Strike to slip far down the leaders list with translated earnings. He's been at $4.8 million plus for three years running.

A simple way of thinking about what makes commercial appeal is whether the buyers believe that the stallion has the ability to give them a special horse.

Once you're paying $150k fees like those for Fusaichi Pegasus and Giant's Causeway you are anticipating breeding a horse with exceptional residual value because they will not, on average, give you a profitable ROI on the race track. Smart Strike hasn't caught the fancy of buyers, but he is one of the few stallions that has a good potential to turn a profit on the track.

Regards,

Pete

[sb]

Here are the breeding stats of Smart Strike from what the JC offers on the Internet. His fertility numbers are very strong, so there doesn't seem to be a problem. Also, his book has gone up and was quite high last season when he bred 134 foals- That's not bad at all. Obviously, people are breeding to him, lol. Say, he gets 80% of foals on the ground this spring, that's 107 foals x $35K = $3 745,000 for a single season!. I think that's plenty of money for any horse to return on the investment. What he was syndicated for was a calculated figure and didn't reflect his 'real' value.
I think it's very misleading to gage prices and values according to the upper level auctions. The buyers with the deep pockets can also afford the best of training. After all, everybody is out to protect their investment and to make as big a profit as possible. Money talks as the cliche goes.

[As an asside and off this topic, some stallions which were kicked out of Ky and stand elsewhere are still of considerable value, not just regionally. One such stallion, I believe, is Louis Quatorze for $6K.
When breeding to sell at the higher auctions, however, it seems nearly impossible in this business to upgrade a mare by breding her to a quality stallion.

Smart Strike KY
134 04
119 109 100 84% 03/04
80 65 59 74% 02/03
76 61 47 62% 01/02
72 62 47 65% 00/01
73 57 78%
89 70 79%
76 63 83%

Can anybody describe Smart Strike as far as his conformation is concerned. Referring to a post on another section of this message board, Tenpins is crooked and most unattractive. His picture certainly doesn't reflect that, but then pictures are just that, pictures, lol.

SB

[sb]

[quote="Pete"]Hi all,



A simple way of thinking about what makes commercial appeal is whether the buyers believe that the stallion has the ability to give them a special horse.

Once you're paying $150k fees like those for Fusaichi Pegasus and Giant's Causeway you are anticipating breeding a horse with exceptional residual value because they will not, on average, give you a profitable ROI on the race track.

-------------------
Yes, I read a comment somewhere [sorry can't quote] from Walmac people, I believe which said that they are in the business of 'making' stallions. After all, a stallion can generate a lot more money than can a mare and with relatively less risks involved. Of course, someone has to have the mares to breed to all those stallions, lol.

[LSB]

Hey Pete, glad to see you back!

[SilverGhost]

Have any of you seen 'Stallion Watch' at The American Thoroughbred Review ( www.ThoroughbredReview.com ) ?

[sb]

Yes, I have, and I find it quite interesting. I like it when there is some substantiated criticism of certaun features in the breeding business.
It's information you have to process with your own knowledge and experience. Never hurts to get more than one angle/opinion.

Why are you asking?

SB

[henthorn]

I really need to organize my notes so I can find things. But I was surprised to see that Smart Strike really has pretty crooked legs. But he has a fluid walk and overall good balance. I can only assume his youngsters must have those attributes as well. A horse can be pretty crooked if he has superior biomechanics, because he doesn't pound his legs as much.

[wilf]

Dear George , I am a great fan and thru this board I learn plenty from you and your significant others of breeding knowledge because of the discussions that your theories incite. Even though I have followed the breed for 50 years everyday is another revelation.Firstly Smart Strike is the real deal and as much as I loved Fu Peg the horse I felt that only Drysdale could have conjured a derby win from such a delicate creature. Unfortunately the great Neil D. will not be handling most of the Fu Pegs so I do not like their chances. Many breeders and buyers will be taking a bath on him but good luck to all of them as one day he surely must produce a champion. Now then..... tumbling down the ladder pricewise, and I mean head-first, just take a look at a blue collar stallion called Cimarron Secret standing in the owners paddock for $750 in Ocala. Every day at Tampa he has a winner or two and he ran with distinction from 3 to 7 himself. He might even get a good one to the right mare but seeing how we are talking best bang for the buck I will say without fear that his stock will be around much longer than any Fu Peg. Regards and thanks.....Wilf.