Greatly appreciate any info on these two sons of Danzig. Brahms is out of a Mr Prospecror mare and Boundary is out of a Damascus mare. Brahms ran predominatly on the turf(though he was 3rd in the Stephen F Foster). Boundary was a sprinter winning 6 of 8 with a 2nd & a 3rd.
Brahms has not had any horses at the track yet but his offspring has sold fairly well though unproven studs are always a risk. Boundary has been a solid sire with several nice runners and his offspring sell okay but not great. Both stand for $10,000.
I'd be very interested on any info on these two horses if anyone can provide such. How do their foals look.. weanlings/yearlings and for Boundary his older horses. Has anyone seen these sires in person etc?
TIA for any insight
Any thoughts/info on Brahms and Boundary?
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
I saw Brahms a couple of weeks ago and wow, what a great looking horse! To ber perfectly honest, I hadn't given him much thought until I saw him...now I'll keep a close eye on his stud career.
Hopefully KAL will check in here. He's bred to Brahms several times and should be able to give you some input on what he's producing.
Hopefully KAL will check in here. He's bred to Brahms several times and should be able to give you some input on what he's producing.
I agree about Brahms, stamps his foals and well-built. Boundary is also well-built, but his foals don't sell as well. I had a Boundary filly a few years ago that I was glad to lose money on just to get her out of my hair. She had a knack for gate antics, hurting herself on the walker, etc. I wouldn't judge others by her behaviors. Beautiful filly-sprinter/miler.
Rocking H
I jumped on the Brahms bandwagon about 5 minutes after I saw him for the first time, in his first season. I had seen him on track, and always thought he had a nice athletic look. When I saw him up close, I, again, liked what I saw, and he has only gotten better looking since.
While he was only tried 2 times on dirt, it is possible he was actually better on that surface. His first attempt on the dirt was in the BC Juvenile at Gulfstream, which came 2 weeks after he ran a tough race in France. In the BC Juvey, he ran wide pretty much the entire trip and was actually one of the strongest finishers. It would have been interesting to see how he would have done if he had been given a better trip, ran at a cooler climate track, and not had the race in France.
In his other try on the dirt, he got beat by a couple real "sharpies" in the Foster (Captain Steve and Guided Tour). However, to be fair, he was a distant third. Who knows what would have happened had he spent more time on the dirt, or been trained to run a different style of race, or had he started his career here instead of in Europe?
As for his races on the turf, he was undefeated, albeit in somewhat questionable company, as a 3 year old, then could not get a break as a 4 year old. His style, and the rides he received, meant that he needed racing luck, which he never seemed to get in his 4 year old season.
I have sent mares to him 5 times. I still love him, but it seems our luck with him is star-crossed. The best mating, in his first year, was lost to a virus developed mid-summer which caused her to abort. We bred this mare back the second year, she caught, and her foal was superior, however he didn't x-ray... so, instead of being a $50,000 yearling, he was a $23,000 yearling.
A second mare was sent to him in that first year. She had a very nice filly, who promptly injured herself and had a scarred ankle to show for it. I made a mistake, put her in the wrong sale, she also was a little on the smallish side, and the market punished us. I think she will be a runner, and feel her new connections must have gotten a steal. This mare got back in foal the next year to him, then absorbed. Not Brahms fault, it just wasn't meant to be.
Another mare was sent to him his second year, we had trouble getting to him when we needed to, which cost us time, then the mare got sick close to her due date, and took an extra month to deliver. After the foal was born, there was an accident in the stall, and mom stepped on the foal, injuring a leg. After a significant vet bill, I now have a small filly with a scar on her leg, and some other problems we hope she grows through.
I still like Brahms; fertility isn't a problem, he is correct, especially for a Danzig, he is quite attractive with a beautiful eye, he has wonderful balance, and he seems to have a sound mind. He does stamp his foals with an athletic look and balance. Overall, they tend to have nice bodies, good bone, and his good looks. It is no wonder the market started to warm to him after his first foals hit the ground.
I think he has a chance to be a leading sire this year, despite the fact he didn't have the strongest group of mares. His principal owner, Tom VanMeter seems to have the real Midas touch, and I don't expect his experience with Brahms to be any different.
Sales wise, sure there were a few "contrived" sales which drove up the averages, however many of the foals were nice enough individuals to demand decent money on their own merits. Also take into consideration, he is going against the "turf horse" stigma, which definitely affected his sales numbers early and in the middle and lower markets.
If I had one negative observation, it would be that his foals tend to run a bit on the smallish side, especially for the sales ring. Obviously, this shouldn't bother anyone breeding to race, and there is nothing wrong with a medium, or even medium-small horse, however you get hurt in the sale ring until the sire is proven (see Rahy). I think this could be the Danzig coming through, although Brahms isn't a big specimen either... and I swear he has grown since his retirement from the track (I had was fortunate to see him run a few times... and always liked him).
Sometimes when you just don't seem to be getting the cards, it is best to just fold, quit for a while, and try something else. No matter how good you are, you just have to give it time for your fortune to turn. So, it is with us and Brahms. I finally gave up... and didn't use him in 2004 and won't use him this year. However, if his fee doesn't go nuts in 2006, I may try again... hopefully, our luck will have turned.
While he was only tried 2 times on dirt, it is possible he was actually better on that surface. His first attempt on the dirt was in the BC Juvenile at Gulfstream, which came 2 weeks after he ran a tough race in France. In the BC Juvey, he ran wide pretty much the entire trip and was actually one of the strongest finishers. It would have been interesting to see how he would have done if he had been given a better trip, ran at a cooler climate track, and not had the race in France.
In his other try on the dirt, he got beat by a couple real "sharpies" in the Foster (Captain Steve and Guided Tour). However, to be fair, he was a distant third. Who knows what would have happened had he spent more time on the dirt, or been trained to run a different style of race, or had he started his career here instead of in Europe?
As for his races on the turf, he was undefeated, albeit in somewhat questionable company, as a 3 year old, then could not get a break as a 4 year old. His style, and the rides he received, meant that he needed racing luck, which he never seemed to get in his 4 year old season.
I have sent mares to him 5 times. I still love him, but it seems our luck with him is star-crossed. The best mating, in his first year, was lost to a virus developed mid-summer which caused her to abort. We bred this mare back the second year, she caught, and her foal was superior, however he didn't x-ray... so, instead of being a $50,000 yearling, he was a $23,000 yearling.
A second mare was sent to him in that first year. She had a very nice filly, who promptly injured herself and had a scarred ankle to show for it. I made a mistake, put her in the wrong sale, she also was a little on the smallish side, and the market punished us. I think she will be a runner, and feel her new connections must have gotten a steal. This mare got back in foal the next year to him, then absorbed. Not Brahms fault, it just wasn't meant to be.
Another mare was sent to him his second year, we had trouble getting to him when we needed to, which cost us time, then the mare got sick close to her due date, and took an extra month to deliver. After the foal was born, there was an accident in the stall, and mom stepped on the foal, injuring a leg. After a significant vet bill, I now have a small filly with a scar on her leg, and some other problems we hope she grows through.
I still like Brahms; fertility isn't a problem, he is correct, especially for a Danzig, he is quite attractive with a beautiful eye, he has wonderful balance, and he seems to have a sound mind. He does stamp his foals with an athletic look and balance. Overall, they tend to have nice bodies, good bone, and his good looks. It is no wonder the market started to warm to him after his first foals hit the ground.
I think he has a chance to be a leading sire this year, despite the fact he didn't have the strongest group of mares. His principal owner, Tom VanMeter seems to have the real Midas touch, and I don't expect his experience with Brahms to be any different.
Sales wise, sure there were a few "contrived" sales which drove up the averages, however many of the foals were nice enough individuals to demand decent money on their own merits. Also take into consideration, he is going against the "turf horse" stigma, which definitely affected his sales numbers early and in the middle and lower markets.
If I had one negative observation, it would be that his foals tend to run a bit on the smallish side, especially for the sales ring. Obviously, this shouldn't bother anyone breeding to race, and there is nothing wrong with a medium, or even medium-small horse, however you get hurt in the sale ring until the sire is proven (see Rahy). I think this could be the Danzig coming through, although Brahms isn't a big specimen either... and I swear he has grown since his retirement from the track (I had was fortunate to see him run a few times... and always liked him).
Sometimes when you just don't seem to be getting the cards, it is best to just fold, quit for a while, and try something else. No matter how good you are, you just have to give it time for your fortune to turn. So, it is with us and Brahms. I finally gave up... and didn't use him in 2004 and won't use him this year. However, if his fee doesn't go nuts in 2006, I may try again... hopefully, our luck will have turned.
