Chamossaire

Discussion and analysis of thoroughbred stallions.

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jeff9061
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Chamossaire

Postby jeff9061 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:59 am

I'm looking for sources of Chamossaire to bring to a mating. Caro is good, can get it via Mizzen Mast or sons of Unbridled's Song. Any other ideas, especially in a relatively mainstream stallion? Any other places with more lines than one?

Just stumped. Appreciate any ideas.

Elles
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Re: Chamossaire

Postby Elles » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:14 am

In the past I owned this mare: http://www.pedigreequery.com/lucky+on+wings
Maybe there are still horses around with Cracksman / Sarah van Fleet in their pedigrees.

I know there was this horse in the past and I think he became a stallion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To-Agori-Mou

Bettina
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Re: Chamossaire

Postby Bettina » Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:25 am

Hello,
I did a bit of Research regarding Chamossaire, from the same damline as Hyperion.

With regard to caro, I shozuld mention he is the Sire of Nebos from the German branch of the Catnip Family via Nella da Gubbio. Nebos was a very good race horse, but somewhat disappointig Sire, but you will see his Name in the ped of Novellist.

Chamossire appears as damsire in the ped Jimmy Reppin, a not so common seen Sire, but he is the Sire of reprocolour (from fam. 13-e, Pharos/Fairway via their FS Fair Isle) an important Broodmare. She is ancestress of Cezanne, Colour Spin, Kayf Tara, Opera House, Zee Zee Top, Izzi Top, Sir Warren (stood a few Years in Germany, now France), Torch Rouge etc.

Regards, Bettina

kimberley mine
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Re: Chamossaire

Postby kimberley mine » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:38 pm

Maria's Mon is out of a Caro mare, so any of his sons or sons of his daughters bring in that line. Don't know if Super Saver is in your budget. Monarchos wants a very specific kind of mare (Pleasant Colony/Ribot in particular).

Santa Claus (IRE) is a line worth looking for. He didn't live long but I've seen his name pop up in quality horses here and there. He has a branch in the US through his daughter Christmas Belle (GB). That's the damline of Octave (by Unbridled's Song), Gr 1 Shuvee Handicap winner Ms Eloise, Ken and Sarah Ramsey's Barbados Gold Cup winner Major Marvel, and a lot of quality, useful runners. I don't know if this line has any sons at stud though.

Alphabet Soup is another source of Cozzene besides Mizzen Mast. He's older and commercially irrelevant but he puts down sound, useful runners. Every now and again you get a Gr-1 winner.

kimberley mine
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Re: Chamossaire

Postby kimberley mine » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:42 pm

The Argentine line of Ringaro (by Caro) is present in north America via Snapy Halo: http://www.pedigreequery.com/snapy+halo

hpkingjr
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Re: Chamossaire

Postby hpkingjr » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:24 pm

Alphabet Soup is another source of Cozzene besides Mizzen Mast. He's older and commercially irrelevant but he puts down sound, useful runners. Every now and again you get a Gr-1 winner.[/quote]

The Iowa stallion auction has an Alphabet Soup season with a minimum bid of $1,000.00
Give the Pope and the King of England a horse and in thirty days, they'll be stealing halters.

jeff9061
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Re: Chamossaire

Postby jeff9061 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:43 pm

Thanks for the ideas.

Kimberly Mine, the Santa Claus line is exactly the line I want to bring Chamossaire/Caro back to. I have a mare from the female line of Octave. The best runners from this line, Octave included, all contain Chamossaire and some with several lines mostly through Caro. The more I study the more I think this is one key for this mare. It looks like Unbridled's Song at first, but if you keep looking there are other great runners from other stallions, but they all come back to Caro and/or Chamossaire. I think what that female line liked, or wanted back from the stallion, was Caro. Octave is the most obvious example.

So, Mizzen Mast can find it in the 3rd generation. Uncle Mo in 5th, Super Saver in 4th. Unbridled's Song stallions in the 4th -- Graydar and Cross Traffic are new this year.

Just hard to find everything you want. Really not willing/able to pay much over $10-12k for this one mare. And would like to find the ancestor in the 3rd or 4th generation. But would like something fresher than Alphabet Soup, for instance -- he fits the bill well, but 1991 scares me. He's older than most the guys I just watched play football tonight. Probably not going to meet all those qualifications, but I'm working on it.

Thanks again.

jeff9061
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Re: Chamossaire

Postby jeff9061 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:49 pm

Snappy Halo?

So what's his story? I missed him in my research. Looks like he came north? You know or have seen him?

jeff9061
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Re: Chamossaire

Postby jeff9061 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:00 pm

And there is Caro in the 3rd generation of Musketier. Apparently I should have been looking in Germany. Thanks -- would not have found this one if not for the tips above.

jeff9061
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Re: Chamossaire

Postby jeff9061 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:06 pm

Okay, four posts on same topic, looks like my first time on a message board, but mare is 4x5 Tom Rolfe (Ribot). No Pleasant Colony. This suit Monarchos in your opinion?

kimberley mine
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Re: Chamossaire

Postby kimberley mine » Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:00 am

Good morning.....

Is your mare Insincerely, by Millenium Wind out of Saintcerely, by Saint Ballado? If so, Alphabet Soup is really interesting. He likes a return of Tom Fool, which Insincerely has through Drone, and a return of Sir Gaylord which she also has through Drone. Soup's best horse is out of a Sir Gaylord-line horse (Our New Recruit) and he has a Gr-3 winner out of an El Prado mare. El Prado's dam is very closely related to Drone.

......

In general, if the choice is between Monarchos and Alphabet Soup: Soup has 835 foals, 80% runners and 56% winners from foals, 47 total stakes winners of which 15 are graded class. Monarchos has 423 foals, 73% runners, 52% winners, and 17 stakes winners of which 3 are graded. While Adena always supported Soup, he never got the level of support that Monarchos did at Claiborne (Monarchos served none other than Personal Ensign!) and yet he still is performing better as a racehorse stallion. Between the two of them, I'd go with Alphabet Soup based on that alone.

......

Something I noticed here is that this family's foundation mare Belle Noel is bred on a very similar cross to Unbridled's Song. UBS has My Dear Girl and Wild Risk over Chamossaire. Belle Noel is by a son of Chamossaire and a daughter of My Dear Girl, and she is out of a Wild Risk mare. While Caro via Doctor Carter and Cozzene have been useful, it might be that this an Unbridled's Song nick more than "just" a Chamossaire nick.

Of the sons of Unbridled's Song, I like Even the Score best--he's been a much more solid sire of racehorses than most UBS sons, they're generally sound, and they win. His win stats are about the same as Alphabet Soup. He also is out of a Rahy mare. Rahy is out of a full sister to Saint Ballado, and he brings soundness and class to the table.

.......

Hope this helps!