New York Breeders Sales Company
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New York Breeders Sales Company
New York Breeders Sales Company is splitting it's sale. They are having a yearling sale between the Tipton Select and Preferred sales. Having so many days makes it almost like Keeneland. What does every one think?
August 11 and 12th. Smack between the Tipton sales. Should be much deeper pockets in town. The sales is open to foals from all areas so might be a good place for Penn breeders as well? I think the website is NYbreederssales.com The sale is also cheaper to enter than Tipton and has a bone warranty.[/url]
Hey El Camino, thanks for the news. I wouldn't have know about it if you hadn't posted!!!
This is a very interesting development! From a business standpoint it makes a tremendous amount of sense for the NY breeders sales co. The buyers will be there, for sure. Though the potential buyers for Fasig-Tipton's sales may be better heeled and looking for lots of pedigree and type, I am sure there will be some overlap with those interested in the NY breeders' catalog.
Plus, I think the ny breeders sale will draw buyers who normally attend only the FT Midlantic (October)yearling sale - (where there are a few high priced yearlings but they are more affordable than those at the FT NYbred sale, generally). That is the sale where NY breeders have traditionally sold their yearlings, if they didn't make it into the FT saratoga ny bred sale.
It will really be an extravaganza of yearling sales that week in Saratoga, and so I think it's generally a great idea - the glamour will rub off on the NY breeders sale.
This is a very interesting development! From a business standpoint it makes a tremendous amount of sense for the NY breeders sales co. The buyers will be there, for sure. Though the potential buyers for Fasig-Tipton's sales may be better heeled and looking for lots of pedigree and type, I am sure there will be some overlap with those interested in the NY breeders' catalog.
Plus, I think the ny breeders sale will draw buyers who normally attend only the FT Midlantic (October)yearling sale - (where there are a few high priced yearlings but they are more affordable than those at the FT NYbred sale, generally). That is the sale where NY breeders have traditionally sold their yearlings, if they didn't make it into the FT saratoga ny bred sale.
It will really be an extravaganza of yearling sales that week in Saratoga, and so I think it's generally a great idea - the glamour will rub off on the NY breeders sale.
Also interesting is the "bone" warranty. It will be interesting to see what is warranted - i.e. that all surgery is disclosed? Will that include periosteal stripping (aka periosteal "elevation") performed for cosmetic reasons (i.e. to disguise or reduce the visual impact of flaws like offset knees?) Or will it only cover invasive joint surgery?
It certainly sounds good. OBS I believe has some sort of bone warranty. It can be good for both buyers and sellers, because it makes pre-sale X-rays less important (less expense for sellers) and good for buyers, because typically they have a right of return for various bone-related reasons, post-sale. However, I have heard Florida sellers complain that some buyers abuse this warranty, returning horses they regret purchasing for other reasons - on trumped up "bone" issues. So, I'm not really sure if it is a good thing in practice, though it certainly sounds fair.
It certainly sounds good. OBS I believe has some sort of bone warranty. It can be good for both buyers and sellers, because it makes pre-sale X-rays less important (less expense for sellers) and good for buyers, because typically they have a right of return for various bone-related reasons, post-sale. However, I have heard Florida sellers complain that some buyers abuse this warranty, returning horses they regret purchasing for other reasons - on trumped up "bone" issues. So, I'm not really sure if it is a good thing in practice, though it certainly sounds fair.
exellent pointel camino wrote:I have heard they are getting lots of nominations, should be much improved book from last years mixed sale. I think Ontario breeders also can benefit greatly if they breed in Can funds and sell in US funds.
A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
Sale is this August 11-12. http://www.nybreederssales.com
Ontario Breeders Selling in Saratoga New York sale, August
I am one of the Ontario breeders planning to consign two nice fillies to the New York yearling sale. Why? A desire to survive as a breeder. The situation has moved from tragedy to farce for Ontario breeders.
For small breeders like me, one problem is the purse structure at Ontario tracks. It is largely determined by trainers and owners who live off claimers. One can claim a horse and recover almost all, if not all, of the cost with one win. Why invest in turning a yearling or two-year old into a race horse when one can make a quick buck in this way? We need to find ways to "incentivize" owners and trainers to want to have Ontario breds, and that probably implies that we need to think about more than breeders bonuses for winners; we need to think about bonuses for trainers and owners as well. Would such incentives imply a commitment to mediocrity? Perhaps, if it doesn't lead to an improvement in quality of horse. However, without such incentives, and with a continuation of the status quo, we can be sure that quality will not improve. We need to make the investment. In the meantime, I am going to sell my foals into a more vigorous market.
For owners of a stallion (as I am), there are yet other problems--there are very few Ontario-sired races, and an Ontario-bred horse is any foal dropped in Ontario. (Some Ontario "breeders" bring in US-purchased mares in foal to US stallions, drop the foal in Ontario, pull out the foal and mare, and return for restricted races later on.)
Where can we go from here? Here are two potential options, with quite different implications:
(a) Turn inward: pursue breeder-friendly but more constrictive rules like those in New York or Pennsylvania; or
(b) Transcend "state-bred" rules: find ways to pay breeder's bonuses to winners wherever they run in a defined region (e.g., Ontario and states in the northeast), to provide an incentive for all to breed for a wider but still defined market.
Don Baker
For small breeders like me, one problem is the purse structure at Ontario tracks. It is largely determined by trainers and owners who live off claimers. One can claim a horse and recover almost all, if not all, of the cost with one win. Why invest in turning a yearling or two-year old into a race horse when one can make a quick buck in this way? We need to find ways to "incentivize" owners and trainers to want to have Ontario breds, and that probably implies that we need to think about more than breeders bonuses for winners; we need to think about bonuses for trainers and owners as well. Would such incentives imply a commitment to mediocrity? Perhaps, if it doesn't lead to an improvement in quality of horse. However, without such incentives, and with a continuation of the status quo, we can be sure that quality will not improve. We need to make the investment. In the meantime, I am going to sell my foals into a more vigorous market.
For owners of a stallion (as I am), there are yet other problems--there are very few Ontario-sired races, and an Ontario-bred horse is any foal dropped in Ontario. (Some Ontario "breeders" bring in US-purchased mares in foal to US stallions, drop the foal in Ontario, pull out the foal and mare, and return for restricted races later on.)
Where can we go from here? Here are two potential options, with quite different implications:
(a) Turn inward: pursue breeder-friendly but more constrictive rules like those in New York or Pennsylvania; or
(b) Transcend "state-bred" rules: find ways to pay breeder's bonuses to winners wherever they run in a defined region (e.g., Ontario and states in the northeast), to provide an incentive for all to breed for a wider but still defined market.
Don Baker
Don, thanks for posting one of the most intelligent and well-thought responses I have seen on this board in months.
Your plight is not unique, however many states have addressed the exact issues that you shed light upon. Interestingly, the more states (could included provinces) pursue positive changes and the more aggressive they become with their pursuit, the more pressure it puts upon those who don't have a well-thought defined program (ie: breeder's incentive funding).
Interestingly, Kentucky had bonuses for owners of Kentucky-bred horses who ran and won in Kentucky races, however this did very, very little to support and encourage the breeders. Mares continued to filter out of the state to other states with breeder incentive awards. Recently, legislation has been passed which should offer some type of breeder awards... it appears the funding is available, however they are currently trying to come up with a workable incentive plan.
Aren't there some significant breeding operations with strong policital ties found in Ontario? I find it amazing they have not been pushing, either quietly or publicly, to establish some type of breeder award structure. Getting their support and leadership certainly would, and should, be priority one.
Good Luck!
Your plight is not unique, however many states have addressed the exact issues that you shed light upon. Interestingly, the more states (could included provinces) pursue positive changes and the more aggressive they become with their pursuit, the more pressure it puts upon those who don't have a well-thought defined program (ie: breeder's incentive funding).
Interestingly, Kentucky had bonuses for owners of Kentucky-bred horses who ran and won in Kentucky races, however this did very, very little to support and encourage the breeders. Mares continued to filter out of the state to other states with breeder incentive awards. Recently, legislation has been passed which should offer some type of breeder awards... it appears the funding is available, however they are currently trying to come up with a workable incentive plan.
Aren't there some significant breeding operations with strong policital ties found in Ontario? I find it amazing they have not been pushing, either quietly or publicly, to establish some type of breeder award structure. Getting their support and leadership certainly would, and should, be priority one.
Good Luck!