Barretts 2yo sale: more insanity!

[llbean]

BTW, 7% Graded SW from the first year stallions as compared to 5.7% for the Older Stallions don't look like $100,000 worth of difference to me.

-llbean

[Sysonby]

Why is it so hard to understand the sport costs more to play at the highest level. Unless you want to count on luck only. Once you start to inhance your opportunity to TRY to complete at the Graded and Group level, money should not be significant.

I read the article and I think that the writer took a snapshot of time that happened to not prove his point--because it is probably an old piece of writing that he really should take down. Now we know that French Deputy and Tale of the Cat were worth the money. But we also know that the stallion in California who was being alluded to, Event of the Year, was NOT worth the money. Hindsight is a great thing, but don't forget all of the high rollers who were investing in Spectacular Bids, Alyshebas, Houstons and J O Tobins before we all found out that they couldn't run. The same may well happen with Point Given and Tiznow. Spending more is not necessarily the same as spending wiser and, as llbean noted, these big prices are often subject to a lot of carve up which has nothing to do necessarily with the quality of the animal being purchased.

[freddymo]

To attemp to compete in grade 1 races, you have to buy horses that you think have the pedigree and conformation to suceed or a proven horse. Either way 25k can not ever be significant in the thought process. If you love a yearling and you expect that yearling to sell for 300k you don't stop at 325k if you love him. If you love him/her at 300 nothing changes at 325k. If you think the world of Forestry you think the world of him at 75k and 85k and 100k. That doesn't mean that you can't think more of elusive quality at 100k then forestry. Either way 25k is meaningless.

[Sysonby]

If you think the world of Forestry you think the world of him at 75k and 85k and 100k. That doesn't mean that you can't think more of elusive quality at 100k then forestry. Either way 25k is meaningless.

Freddy, the Forestry syndicate would love to see you coming especially if you have the wherewithal to back up your statements. But there are only a handful of breeders in the world who breed without regards to the bottom line. At least 50 % of modern breeders are commercial outfits and $25,000 here or there represents a chunk of their cashflow. I'd be surprised if those folks will go for Forestry at the $100,000 price point not only because they are sensitive to money but in that stratosphere, he has serious competition that frankly has performed better than he has. Which comes back to the point that was originally being made--the best thing a stallion manager can do is exceed expectations. That keeps demand up and he can be selective about the mares he accepts. Conversely the worse thing he can do is overvalue the stallion and chase away the serious breeders with the good mares.

Why hasn't A P Indy joined Storm Cat at the $500,000 level? Obviously there must be resistance even among the superrich or the Indy folks would have tried it.

As far as the auction scenario, that certainly happens with some buyers that they get run up by the excitement or by the advisors and they spend more than they planned. The key is whether the horse was really worth the additional money--and I'll go as far as to say that is often not the case.

[LSB]

25k can not ever be significant in the thought process. If you love a yearling and you expect that yearling to sell for 300k you don't stop at 325k if you love him. If you love him/her at 300 nothing changes at 325k.

Ummm...yes it does. Unless you're one of those few, really lucky, buyers you have a budget. And if you have 300K to spend, what changes is that you run out of money.

There are very few people who march into the pavillion thinking "I'm going to buy that yearling I want no matter what it costs."

[freddymo]

I recently have stop buying standard breds to focus on TB's. This is a completely different arena. I (we) have done fairly well racing standard breds and over the least 2 years I have come to love TB's. This sport requires real capital. My partner and I have concentrated on learning the sport for the last 18 months and I am sure to make novice mistakes. Spending an additional 25K on what I believe to be a grade 1 horse will not be my down fall. I have no predisposition on Forestry. Conceptually the difference to breed to Forestry (or buy a yearling by him) and spend an the difference between 50k or 75k will never be an issue. The only issue in my mind will be.. is he the goods or not.

As a side note, Thank you all as I have added little and taken a lot. Hopefully 1 day I can return the favor.

FM

[LSB]

As a side note, Thank you all as I have added little and taken a lot. Hopefully 1 day I can return the favor.

We're all learning new stuff here--that's the fun of it. Thanks for the input.

[freddymo]

LSB.

thx for the kind words.. Where I come from if you want to win, you have to be able to afford to lose. This sport can be mighty expensive. I saw my hero the other day on TV. Bob Lewis 70+ in the winners circle ay SA excepting a troghy for a graded 2 race with a shot to win the Derby. He spent 1.25mil to smile and thrive with his bride. As far as I am concerned, spending 1.9mil on a 2 year old seems perfectly normal. I'm having a great Cab Sav. 1985 vintage bought in 88' would taste that much better in KY the first saturday in may...

Dreaming and trying

fm

[llbean]

Hi Freddymo,

Since you and your partner seem like you have the money to afford him; perhaps you could try finding the right kind of mare to breed to Mineshaft. I really like that horse as a stallion prospect.

-llbean

[freddymo]

You maybe right but I have no interest in Mineshaft. Not because he was not wonderful ,or because of his pedigree. Intially we are sticking with proven sires. Old school stuff. Looking for Seeking the Gold mares or Mutakdim mares going to breed to Storm Cat sons TBD. Thinking about Tale of the Cat,Cat Thief, Stormy Atlantic etc. All depends on the mare confirmation you know the usual. Might look for something to breed Rahy and a Danzig son TBD. We are only going to have so much money to begin with. We are breeding to race not to sell so we can be a little less interseted in what is hot.Maybe even Forestry or Forest Wildcat although I would like to see some more results. This is a tough sport to enter on a million dollar budget. LOL

[llbean]

Rahy sounds like an excellent choice for a breed to race operation; the key to that stallion from a pedigree standpoint is to give him and his mares Nureyev Blood.

I say this as Rahy is the result of breeding Blushing Groom (a strong nick with Nureyev) to a mare by Halo (a strong nick with Nureyev also) AND because Rahy has combined with Nureyev in the Top GIWs Tate's Creek and Megahertz; as well as the G2W and very likely Future GIW Maid's Causeway.

In comparision, Rahy and Seattle Slew have combined in only One GIW (Early Pioneer), and Rahy and Danzig have combined in only one GIW(Tranquility Lake) also. Even Mr Prospector, a stallion born 7 years before Nureyev, only just last year combined with Rahy in their first GIW (Shamardal) outside of Puerto Rico!

-llbean

[BJ]

I don't know what lunatic bought this high probability breakdown star, or what agent(s) pocketed hundreds of thousands on him. But I am going to watch with great interest how well and how long he performs when he runs in TB races longer than 440 yards.Insanity!

The buyers were Bob & Beverly Lewis with Sid & Jenny Craig the under bidders.

And I agree with your assessment. I have to say though that since the Lewises pocketed something like $11,000,000 last November dispersing much of their breeding stock, it's nice to see them put some of the money back into the industry.

Wish these people would pay less for these horses that are bound to lose them money and spread a little around on the retirement of the ones that run their hearts out for them. You really have to wonder what drives people to pay so much for so little.

[LSB]

Do you know the Lewises? What makes you think they don't spend money to retire their horses well?

[wilf]

Reading through this thread is a treat for me as I just want to scream "Stop the Madness". I live in the Ocala area which is the heart of the madness with a training track on EVERY corner winding up half -broke horses to make the sales in double quick time. The practices used to ready horses for these sales will guarantee a terrible residue of beat-up babies probably useless for anything but the scrap heap.It burns me up as this is a great place to grow up for a young t-bred all they need is half a chance for their bodies to catch up to the tasks required of them. Horses have been evolving for many thousands of years and its tough to break them down but homo-sapiens is getting right on with it whilst patting each other on the back for the rare big sale.

[BJ]

Reading through this thread is a treat for me as I just want to scream "Stop the Madness". I live in the Ocala area which is the heart of the madness with a training track on EVERY corner winding up half -broke horses to make the sales in double quick time. The practices used to ready horses for these sales will guarantee a terrible residue of beat-up babies probably useless for anything but the scrap heap.It burns me up as this is a great place to grow up for a young t-bred all they need is half a chance for their bodies to catch up to the tasks required of them. Horses have been evolving for many thousands of years and its tough to break them down but homo-sapiens is getting right on with it whilst patting each other on the back for the rare big sale.

It occurs to me that if they would pass a law that you can't race a horse 'til it is 3, you could get rid of all of the crap in this business and only the true horsemen would be left standing. A virtual heaven on earth