Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

[louis finochio]

BAD N BIG (USA) dkb/br. G, 1974 {21-a} DP = 12-4-0-0-0 (16) DI = Inf CD = 1.75 - 48 Starts, 13 Wins, 14 Places, 9 Shows Career Earnings: $593,575

Owner: Dr. & Mrs. Buck Wynne, Jr.
Breeder: C. Brinson & B. McCormick
State Bred: CA
Winnings: 48 Starts: 13 - 14 - 9, $593,575

At 2:
2nd: San Bruno S.
At 3:
1st: Cinema H. [G2], Eldorado H. [G3]
2nd: Argonaut H. [G2], Coronado H., Baldwin S., Debonair S.
3rd: Will Rogers H. [G2]

At 4:
1st: Golden Gate H. [G3], Longacres Mile H. [G3], Caballero H. [G3], Bing Crosby H.
2nd: Malibu S. [G2], San Simeon H., Morvich H., Inglewood H.
3rd: Palos Verdes H.

At 5:
2nd: San Diego H.
3rd: Longacres Mile H. [G3], Citation H. [G3], San Carlos H. [G2], Triple Bend H.

At 6:
3rd: Bing Crosby H.



Trainer: Richard Mandella (HoF)

BAD N BIG br. G, 1974
Inverness Drive---Dance Hall Girl, by Guerrero

BNB was a NFB, with only 4 crosses of Ph. stallions. In his time, our breed was not 95% Ph.
BNB was bred from a Tourbillon over Teddy mating. Those NP sire line stallions & mares were at their peak, before their steep decline in the early 80s.
The tb in this time frame were sounder, tougher, & had vitality & longevity.

[BenB]

No Lasix no bute, no therapeutic medications you certainly mean.

[DDT]

Louis

You continue posting the names of Fashion Breds and Non-Fashion Breds that suffered fatal or career ending injuries without regard to your incorrect method of counting all of the Phalaris line stallions and mares appearing in the 5 generation pedigrees of the horses named as being inbred. After years of requesting the rules you utilize in considering whether or not a horse is a Fashion Bred or Non-Fashion Bred you have stated that the horse must be inbred to 3 or more Phalaris line stallions or mares and you have altered that method to now include type 1 and type 2 Fashion Breds. If you go back and examine the horses listed in the most recent 10 pages of this thread, pages 928 through 938 you will find 29 horses listed. Of those 29, 5 were the result of heart related problems, 2 Fashion Breds, 2 Non-Fashion Breds and 1, Tawney's Wish, listed by you as a Fashion Bred but was only inbred to 2 Phalaris line stallions, 4X4 Northern Dancer and 5X5X5 to Nearctic, she was not inbred 5X5 to Natalma as you believe, the only chromosomes and genes that had a chance to be doubled in the pedigree are the ones she passed on to Northern Dancer and thus Tawney's Wish was actually a Non-Fashion Bred.

5 heart related deaths 3 NFB 2 FB

There is one horse listed that suffered a head injury prior to a race, Apropos, a Fashion Bred.

1 head injury 1 FB

Out of the remaining 23 horses listed by you, 10 were Fashion Breds, 6 were Non-Fashion Breds and 7 were listed by you as Fashion Breds that are actually Non-Fashion Breds.

23 fatal injuries, 10 FB 13 NFB

When one applies the correct method for counting inbreedings in a pedigree the totals for the 29 listed horses are 13 Fashion Breds and 16 Non-Fashion Breds.

DDT

[louis finochio]

I have taken a curve, in all my research of, inbreedings & outcrossings. I have seen those tbs with prolific inbreeding to one sire line, & single crosses of one sire line, sustain career ending injuries.

Those type 2 FB, have averaged more lifetime starts, as they have more crosses of NP than those type 1 FB.

If i were a breeder, i would not plan a mating of my mare to a stallion with 24-29 crosses of Ph. stallions. The risk for injury of a mating, is a red flag. Those NFB that have 23--29 crosses of Ph. stallions, become a high risk for unsoundness.

[louis finochio]

SOAR HOME (USA) dkb/br. F, 2011 {21-a} DP = 13-4-16-1-0 (34) DI = 2.78 CD = 0.85 - 7 Starts, 1 Wins, 1 Places, 2 Shows Career Earnings: $22,610

Owner: J. Cahill, V. Heeg, E. Moger Jr., P. Neary, S. Willoughby & F. Walker
Breeder: Jenny Mills
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 7 Starts: 1 - 1 - 2, $22,610


Foaled March 25, 2011.

SOAR HOME br. F, 2011
Fusaichi Pegasus---Bella Bellado, by Saint Ballado

Soar Home was a type 1 FB, being inbred to 5 Ph. stallions, 2 X 4 Mr. P.---3 X 4 Halo---4 X 5 ND---3 X 5 RAN---4 X 5 Hail to Reason. 2 Ph. mares, 3 X 5 Gold Digger---4 X 5 Cosmah.

Soar Home fractured her right shoulder, at the finish, 10/ 26/ 2014/
Soar Home had 24 crosses Ph. stallions & 16 crosses Ph. mares.
These type 1 FB are averaging under 9 lifetime starts, before being injured.

[BenB]

Louis, in his favourite roll again, names without facts. 1200 injuries a yr louis in the States, 12000 to go in this blog alone since your started.

[louis finochio]

CHASE THIS BANDIT (USA) dkb/br. C, 2012 {10-c} DP = 8-4-9-1-0 (22) DI = 3.00 CD = 0.86 - 2 Starts, 0 Wins, 2 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $28,800

Owner: John A. Witte, Sr.
Breeder: John A. Witte
State Bred: NY

Sadly, broke Down after finishing 2nd in race 10 at Belmont Park 10/24/14 and had to be euthanized. RIP

CHASE THIS BANDIT br. C, 2012
Thunder Gulch---Belongs to Bandit, by Belong to Me

Chase This Bandit was a type 1 FB being inbred to 3 Ph. stallions, 4 X 5 RAN---4 X 4 X 5 ND---5 X 5 Nearctic. 1 Ph. mare 5 X 5 Natalma.

CTB had 19 crosses Ph. stallions, plus all his inbreeding to those Ph. stallions, created an unsound individual.

[louis finochio]

IGOTITDAD (USA) b. H, 2009 {1-n} DP = 4-2-6-0-0 (12) DI = 3.00 CD = 0.83 - 6 Starts, M Wins, 1 Places, 2 Shows Career Earnings: $5,562

Owner: Bersalu Farm Inc.
Breeder: Mr. & Mrs. R. Warren Lyster
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 6 Starts: M - 1 - 2, $5,562

Igotitdad had a heart attack, just past the wire.

Igotitdad was a type 1 FB, being inbred to 4 Ph. stallions, 4 X 4 Mr. P.---4 X 5 Halo---4 X 5 X 5 ND---5 X 5 RAN. 3 Ph. mares, 4 X 5 Sex Appeal---5 X 5 Natalma---5 X 5 Gold Digger.

Igotitdad had 27 crosses Ph. stallions & 19 crosses Ph. mares.
Another tb sustained a heart attack with prolific inbreeding to ND.

[louis finochio]

With our breed now 95% Ph. it has become a breeders nightmare, in finding those NP stallions, that nick with our mares.
When we have only one sire line, to breed our mares to, & our mares dont have a bloodline affinity with them, are breeders are left with but one choice.

Thats why we are not breeding more sound superior runners., like in the past. when those NP sire line stallions were in abundance.

[louis finochio]

Mr. Prospector was bred to prolific numbers of NP mares.

Mr. P. bred 5 SW when bred to Fair Play mares.
21 SW when bred to Gainsborough & Hyperion mares.
6 SW when bred to Peter Pan mares.

12 SW when bred to Prince Rose mares.
12 SW when bred to Rabelais mares.
7 SW when bred to Swynford mares.

20 SW when bred to Teddy mares.
4 SW when bred to Tourbillon mares.

We can see what we have lost, since those NP sire lines, could not reproduce themselves, in the present.

[ct2346]

If i were a breeder, i would not plan a mating of my mare to a stallion with 24-29 crosses of Ph. stallions. The risk for injury of a mating, is a red flag. Those NFB that have 23--29 crosses of Ph. stallions, become a high risk for unsoundness.

Put your MONEY where your mouth is. I've always found it best to test my theories on something other than a keyboard.

[louis finochio]

I bred winning racing pigeons, for 30 years. If you can breed pigeons you can breed tbs. HOF trainer, Hirsch Jacobs, followed my foot steps, as he bred winning pigeons & tbs.

[ct2346]

SEAPIGEON (USA) mottled b., 2009 {23-a} DP = 4-2-6-0-0 (12) DI = 3.00 CD = 0.83 - 6 flights, M Wins, 1 Places, 2 Shows Career Earnings: $0

Owner: Inbred Coops
State Bred: CA
Winnings: 6 flights: M - 1 - 2, 0

Seapigeon flew into the engine of an offcourse Cessna

Seapigeon was a type 1 FB, being inbred to 4 Ph. birds,
SP had 27 crosses Ph.
Another bird that sustained instant death due to prolific Ph inbreeding.

RIP SP.

[DDT]

ct2346

Out of the 14,052 posts on this thread your most recent post has to be the one posting that relates to the truth of the subject matter. Well done and absolutely right on point.

DDT

[Patuxet]

Thanks, ct2346, for one of most creatively witty squelches ever posted on this site.