A Sus Ordenes has 3 crosses of Ph. Twice thru Fairway and once thru Pharos, which are full brothers.
A Sus Ordenes has 13 crosses of NP.
Louis's Blog on Inbreeding
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louis finochio
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Shammy Davis
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Hi BJ: You wrote:
There is no doubt in mind that you are right. The question in my mind is who is getting the pleasure? Is it the puller (Louis) or the pullees (us)? Someone is getting yanked around for sure.
If it will bring some peace to the board on this subject, Louis has my vote for gelding BERNARDINI. For that matter, I'll gladly offer myself up as a sacrifice. I'm well passed child rearing age.
Threads/debates like this are known, in some circles as "mental masturbation".
There is no doubt in mind that you are right. The question in my mind is who is getting the pleasure? Is it the puller (Louis) or the pullees (us)? Someone is getting yanked around for sure.
If it will bring some peace to the board on this subject, Louis has my vote for gelding BERNARDINI. For that matter, I'll gladly offer myself up as a sacrifice. I'm well passed child rearing age.
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louis finochio
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Shammy Davis wrote:Hi BJ: You wrote:Threads/debates like this are known, in some circles as "mental masturbation".
There is no doubt in mind that you are right. The question in my mind is who is getting the pleasure? Is it the puller (Louis) or the pullees (us)? Someone is getting yanked around for sure.
If it will bring some peace to the board on this subject, Louis has my vote for gelding BERNARDINI. For that matter, I'll gladly offer myself up as a sacrifice. I'm well passed child rearing age.
What a stress reliever that was! louis finochio wrote:Cold Comfort has 2 crosses of ph. thru Sickle and Pharos.
Cold Comfort has 14 crosses of NP.
Louis,
My point is...isn't UP CLOSE inbreeding much more potent than 12 crosses 8, 9, & 10 generations ago???
And...I will, no doubt be chided for asking this question, but WHAT or WHO in Phalaris' breeding is CAUSING all this alleged unsoundness?
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louis finochio
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When a breeder doubles or triples up in a mating like 4X5 or 5 X 5 X 5 it will be handed down to the offspring in a higher % than in the 9 th generation.
Natalma the dam of Northern Dancer made only 7 starts, so I am placing a black mark on soundness, as we our now seeing evidence of those 4 X 4 or 3 X 4 inbreeding to Northern Dancer as a possible cause for these breakdowns.
Natalma the dam of Northern Dancer made only 7 starts, so I am placing a black mark on soundness, as we our now seeing evidence of those 4 X 4 or 3 X 4 inbreeding to Northern Dancer as a possible cause for these breakdowns.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
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louis finochio
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Funny Cide---------------5 X 5 Ribot--------------------------8 crosses Ph.
Tranquilo-----------------3 X 5 Northern Dancer--------------7 Ph.
Me No Toad----4X5 Native Dancer---5X5 Nasrullah---4X5 Eight Thirty=Rock Sand-----------------------------------------------6 Ph.
Tiz Showtime------------3 X 4 In Reality=Fair Play-----------6 Ph.
Peppermint Swirl--------4X4X5 Northern Dancer-------------5 Ph.
Moon Mullins----------4X5 Nasrullah-----4X5 Prince John-----3 Ph.
Showing Up-----------4X4 Native Dancer---5X5 Nasrullah----6 Ph.
General John B.-------5X5 Olympia=Gainsborough-----------7 Ph.
To be continued.
Tranquilo-----------------3 X 5 Northern Dancer--------------7 Ph.
Me No Toad----4X5 Native Dancer---5X5 Nasrullah---4X5 Eight Thirty=Rock Sand-----------------------------------------------6 Ph.
Tiz Showtime------------3 X 4 In Reality=Fair Play-----------6 Ph.
Peppermint Swirl--------4X4X5 Northern Dancer-------------5 Ph.
Moon Mullins----------4X5 Nasrullah-----4X5 Prince John-----3 Ph.
Showing Up-----------4X4 Native Dancer---5X5 Nasrullah----6 Ph.
General John B.-------5X5 Olympia=Gainsborough-----------7 Ph.
To be continued.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
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louis finochio
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You dont have too be an expert to see what is causing these breakdowns.
Any student of pedigree novice or otherwise can see what happens when a breeder doubles or triples those individuals that are causing the unsoundness.
Ronnie F. desingated Pretense to chef years ago and I didnt agree with him then or now.
Any student of pedigree novice or otherwise can see what happens when a breeder doubles or triples those individuals that are causing the unsoundness.
Ronnie F. desingated Pretense to chef years ago and I didnt agree with him then or now.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
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Shammy Davis
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Louis wrote:
Hold on Louis. You should be an expert before you submit your information for recognition. Your creditials are somewhat suspect and I for one am somewhat irritated by your approach to this issue. You have nothing to offer to us but your own observations. I've keenly read this and other outdated threads of yours where you have routinely listed horses with multiple Phalaris pedigrees and you have identified them as probable producers of unsoundness. It is apparent that you have annointed yourself as an expert and I frankly don't see it. I remember the threads about HTR that were driven and inspired in the same light. I must tell you that IMO that you have not honestly enlightened anyone on this subject. BJ is right. This has been "mental masturbation" at its worst.
You dont have too be an expert to see what is causing these breakdowns.
Hold on Louis. You should be an expert before you submit your information for recognition. Your creditials are somewhat suspect and I for one am somewhat irritated by your approach to this issue. You have nothing to offer to us but your own observations. I've keenly read this and other outdated threads of yours where you have routinely listed horses with multiple Phalaris pedigrees and you have identified them as probable producers of unsoundness. It is apparent that you have annointed yourself as an expert and I frankly don't see it. I remember the threads about HTR that were driven and inspired in the same light. I must tell you that IMO that you have not honestly enlightened anyone on this subject. BJ is right. This has been "mental masturbation" at its worst.
louis
Advising against line breeding to Phalaruis is kind of like advising agaist line breeding to the Darcey Arabial or the Byerley Turk.
Like it or not Phalauis is now one of the breeds foundation horses and it's impossible not to line breed to him of you want fast horses.
griff
Advising against line breeding to Phalaruis is kind of like advising agaist line breeding to the Darcey Arabial or the Byerley Turk.
Like it or not Phalauis is now one of the breeds foundation horses and it's impossible not to line breed to him of you want fast horses.
griff
"We has met the enemy and he is us" [Pogo]
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louis finochio
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When horses talk and nobody listens, its not the kosher thing to do.
If these double and triple crosses worked and their was no soundness problem, that would be the way to go.
The soundness problem has almost hit bottom and breeders are not reading these pedigrees to find those soundness problems.
Wait till you read what I will post on Friday, as the same negative pattern continues.
Griff: would you rather breed a fast TB that wins early and breaks down early or would you breed a TB for turf and a distance of ground that is a late bloomer, and has an abundance of soundness?
The Calif. TB Assn. is very concerned about the number of breakdowns that our taking place. After discussing this problem with many trainers, owners, farriers, and bloodstock agents, they all agree the TB of today is not the same TB of years past.
Any time you line-breed or inbreed to the max, you will experience many negative changes in the breed and soundness is the major change.
My plan is to outcross with two inbred families that are not related, these matings will breed hybrid vigor and soundness back into the breed.
If these double and triple crosses worked and their was no soundness problem, that would be the way to go.
The soundness problem has almost hit bottom and breeders are not reading these pedigrees to find those soundness problems.
Wait till you read what I will post on Friday, as the same negative pattern continues.
Griff: would you rather breed a fast TB that wins early and breaks down early or would you breed a TB for turf and a distance of ground that is a late bloomer, and has an abundance of soundness?
The Calif. TB Assn. is very concerned about the number of breakdowns that our taking place. After discussing this problem with many trainers, owners, farriers, and bloodstock agents, they all agree the TB of today is not the same TB of years past.
Any time you line-breed or inbreed to the max, you will experience many negative changes in the breed and soundness is the major change.
My plan is to outcross with two inbred families that are not related, these matings will breed hybrid vigor and soundness back into the breed.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
louis
Where are you going to find unrelated lines? Especially unrelated lines that can run ? You can outcross to a Shire and the foal will probably be sound but what have you got?
The warmblood people do a good job but they don't get very many horses that can run against a TB.
We are stuck with the blood and genes we have and it probably would behove us to do a better job with those genes; however, you can not discard 90% of the genes and keep the breed together.
PHALAUIS is now an integral part of the breed and he will remain an integral part of the breed.
griff
griff
Where are you going to find unrelated lines? Especially unrelated lines that can run ? You can outcross to a Shire and the foal will probably be sound but what have you got?
The warmblood people do a good job but they don't get very many horses that can run against a TB.
We are stuck with the blood and genes we have and it probably would behove us to do a better job with those genes; however, you can not discard 90% of the genes and keep the breed together.
PHALAUIS is now an integral part of the breed and he will remain an integral part of the breed.
griff
griff
"We has met the enemy and he is us" [Pogo]
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Vindicated
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Re: INBREEDING AND BREAKDOWNS
Gallant Secret-----------No Duplication-------------10 crosses Phalaris
Secret's injury was not techincally life threatning-
she died after surgery-after recovery techincally
Secret's injury was not techincally life threatning-
she died after surgery-after recovery techincally