Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Understanding pedigrees, inbreeding, dosage, etc.

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Shammy Davis
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Postby Shammy Davis » Wed May 02, 2012 8:49 am

BenB posted:
An F1 cross is used when, 2 different breeds are mixed.

Example, a dutch native horse with an TB result a riding horse.

The F1 termology is not used by mixing several bloodlines within one breed.


Thanks for the clarification. I recall seeing the designation F1 and like prfsue, I connected it with Louis' imaginative designations.

Simply, from Basic Genetics 101, hybrid vigor is not a consideration when two exact breed pairs are mated.

It appears that Whirlaway was attempting a "sympathetic seance" with Louis.

Shammy Davis
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Postby Shammy Davis » Wed May 02, 2012 8:57 am

Louis here is a link that might help you. It's simple to follow. It's in a power point format and you can download it and study it at your leisure.

http://www.stats.gla.ac.uk/~paulj/intro_genetics.ppt

Should have posted this years ago, but I doubt if it would have done any good, even then.

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Bast
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Postby Bast » Wed May 02, 2012 9:02 am

Shammy Davis wrote:BenB posted:
An F1 cross is used when, 2 different breeds are mixed.

Example, a dutch native horse with an TB result a riding horse.

The F1 termology is not used by mixing several bloodlines within one breed.


Thanks for the clarification. I recall seeing the designation F1 and like prfsue, I connected it with Louis' imaginative designations.

Simply, from Basic Genetics 101, hybrid vigor is not a consideration when two exact breed pairs are mated.

It appears that Whirlaway was attempting a "sympathetic seance" with Louis.


Basic Genetics 101 does not apply in the Louisverse! Louis doesn't understand it, so it cannot apply.
May 2013: Plan ahead now for the Phalaris/Teddy Centennial!
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A horse gallops with his lungs
Perseveres with his heart
And wins with his character. --Tesio

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ElPrado
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Postby ElPrado » Wed May 02, 2012 11:03 am

It doesn't even apply with pigeons, much less horses.
Maybe some Madagascar pigeon with an African Rock Pigeon would be hybrid vigor.
Or rhinos with wart hogs. :lol:

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Bast
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Postby Bast » Wed May 02, 2012 11:07 am

ElPrado wrote:It doesn't even apply with pigeons, much less horses.
Maybe some Madagascar pigeon with an African Rock Pigeon would be hybrid vigor.
Or rhinos with wart hogs. :lol:


I predict "F1" will show up in Louis's posts for awhile.

:roll:
May 2013: Plan ahead now for the Phalaris/Teddy Centennial!

*****************************

A horse gallops with his lungs

Perseveres with his heart

And wins with his character. --Tesio

louis finochio
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Postby louis finochio » Wed May 02, 2012 5:44 pm

Bull Hancock, Fred Hooper, John Nehrud, E. P. Taylor used those NP sire lines to the max. They all bred those sound superior runners from those NP lines.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

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ElPrado
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Postby ElPrado » Wed May 02, 2012 6:00 pm

Which lines were those, Louis?
Your turn. Get off your lazy butt and you list them. If I can, you can.
You keep whining for other people to do the work for you. You do it.

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Bast
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Postby Bast » Wed May 02, 2012 6:57 pm

louis finochio wrote:Bull Hancock, Fred Hooper, John Nehrud, E. P. Taylor used those NP sire lines to the max. They all bred those sound superior runners from those NP lines.


Utter Hogwash, Louis. Stop repeating this fantasy of yours.

I've detailed Bull Hancock's importations of Phalaris line stallions from all over the world before.

Fred Hooper used Phalaris line horses--he concentrated on inbreeding to Olympia, but not strictly through the male line.

Nerud used Phalaris line horses in planning matings--he sent Dr Fager's dam to Buckpasser.

E P Taylor imported Nearctic in utero. And he bred Northern Dancer, crossing 2 Phalaris male line descent individuals.

Louis, you don't know what you are talking about.
May 2013: Plan ahead now for the Phalaris/Teddy Centennial!

*****************************

A horse gallops with his lungs

Perseveres with his heart

And wins with his character. --Tesio

Shammy Davis
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Postby Shammy Davis » Wed May 02, 2012 7:06 pm

Louis wrote:
Bull Hancock, Fred Hooper, John Nehrud, E. P. Taylor used those NP sire lines to the max. They all bred those sound superior runners from those NP lines.


First, Bast is right. You obviously don't have a clue as to what you are posting. Second none of these breeders would have been concerned about PH breeding. During the height of each man's breeding program, no one knew of FB/NFB until you started this thread 5 years ago.

You can't get your facts straight. You can't get your timeline straight. You can't remember what you posted a page previous to this.

Please think about what you are saying.

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diomed
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Postby diomed » Wed May 02, 2012 7:38 pm

Shammy Davis wrote:Louis here is a link that might help you. It's simple to follow. It's in a power point format and you can download it and study it at your leisure.

http://www.stats.gla.ac.uk/~paulj/intro_genetics.ppt

Should have posted this years ago, but I doubt if it would have done any good, even then.

Louis won't even get adobe reader for pdf files. What makes you think he even has Power Point. :lol:

louis finochio
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Postby louis finochio » Thu May 03, 2012 6:38 am

These are Bull Hancock's superior runners that he crossed with NP mares or NP stallions.

Round Table---Prince Rose over Orby, Nadir---Ph. over Swynford, Bagdad---Peter Pan over Ph., Lamb Chop---Ph. over Sundridge, Moccasin---Ph. over Orby.

Gamely---Ph. over Tourbillon, Royal Glint---Prince Rose over Ph., Nureyev---Ph. over Hyperion---Revidere---Ph. over Prince Rose, Wajima---Ph. over Swynford---Ivanjica---Ph. over Swynford.


Apalachee---Prince Rose over Ph. Thatch---Hyperion over Ph. Bayou---Prince rose over Domino, Levee---Prince Rose over Domino, Delta---Phalaris over Domino, Jet Pilot---Swynford over Teddy.

Bull used the leading stallions & brought in the outcross of NP thru those NP mares.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio

Shammy Davis
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Postby Shammy Davis » Thu May 03, 2012 7:16 am

Diomed: Louis could scroll through the power point just as if it were a pdf. But you are absolutely right. What could possibly make me think that Louis would know what to do?

After over five years of this thread, what would make me "think" anything.

I've noticed a great many members have been challenging my thinking lately. Maybe I should be posting to myself. "Think about what you saying!"

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Postby Shammy Davis » Thu May 03, 2012 7:45 am

Louis: Anyone who has ever read anything about Bull Hancock and Clairborne or Richard Hancock and Ellerslie knows that he (they) sought out productive althletic winning horses to breed. Bull might have glanced at a pedigree and may have had certain affinities for particular lines, but his emphasis on pedigree study was to be so unremarkable as to have lost any place in books or other resources written about him, his father, or his grandfather. Also, this shows you have very little knowledge of TB history and the influence of particular horses. I suggest you read Dynasties by Ed Bowen, Legends of the Turf, also by Ed Bowen, and American Classic Pedigrees by Avalyn Hunter to get a grip on your "riper than ripe" imagination.

Please don't try to make something of Bull Hancock, that is clearly not true. The same for Hooper, Nehrud, and E. P. Taylor. If you think about the pinnacle of their breeding programs, as posted before, was well before the term "fashionable" entered the vocabulary of TB horsemen and women. I've never come across anything that refers to any fear of PH inbreeding by influential breeders, past or current) and the reason for that is that none (past or present) think of it as problematic.

Intelligent thinking horsepeople, with you as the exception, understand that there are myriad of factors that result in racehorse injury and unsoundness.

Your vague generalities have gotten this thread five plus years of attention. Lord only knows how much farther your "imagination" will take it. There is certainly the potential of a Guinness record here. One possibility is a record for the number of years or hits this thread get. The other is a record for the number of people who turn to drinking "stout or ale" in excess after reading this thread.

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Postby Affirmed1 » Thu May 03, 2012 7:52 am

[quote="diomed"][quote="louis finochio"]
D does not have a son to pass on the torch.
[/quote]

Because his best one ironically broke down. :roll:
So much for being a NFB.[/quote]


Dynaformer's male line still has a shot. Brilliant Speed has a chance at maturing into a top older horse, and Americain, who won the Melbourne Cup, will probably get a chance at stud in Australia. Dynaformer's son Purim died way too young, but his offspring will be reaching racing age- hopefully some good colts coming out of his crops. :wink:

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some European horses for Louis

Postby Affirmed1 » Thu May 03, 2012 8:00 am

[quote="louis finochio"]Ben or Parlo: Post some of the top 3 yr. olds in Euro land. I want to have a look at their pedigrees. Thanks, Louis.[/quote]


Louis: Here are some of the winners from the big races in UAE recently, if you could check their pedigrees:

Cityscape
Krypton Factor
Monterosso
Daddy Long Legs

8)