Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Understanding pedigrees, inbreeding, dosage, etc.

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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby louis finochio » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:58 am

TEXAN WARNEY (AUS) ch. G, 2005 {20-a} DP = 4-1-7-0-0 (12) DI = 2.43 CD = 0.75 - 29 Starts, 8 Wins, 2 Places, 2 Shows Career Earnings: A$139,820

TEXAN WARNEY (AUS) ch. G. 2005
Gallo Di Ferra---Nene Valley, by Idealista

Texan Warney was a NFB with an outcross pedigree & no dupe of inbreeding. TW started 92 times, being injured in his last start, he FX his RH cannon bone.

Texan Warney had 20 crosses NP stallions & 11 Ph. stallions. This is an old school mting of soundness. This mating with prolific crosses of NP stallions & mares, is the way we were breeding our tbs years ago.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby BenB » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:42 am

Down Under, they race exclusively on turf (grass) and medication free. Even training is medication free, so soundness is created by enforcement and very harsh penalties.

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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby louis finochio » Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:03 am

I have seen prolific numbers of FB, in (AUS) sustain career ending injuries. Strength of bone is bred by outcrossing,
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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby BenB » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:54 am

Louis, why are there are 0.68 breakdowns per 1000 sts in Australia and 3 times higher 1.95 per 1000 sts in the US?????????


Profilic, you are just handpicking them. Blind folded and obsessed.

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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby louis finochio » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:48 am

There are more NP sire lines in those Aussie stallions & mares. The more NP found in their tbs, equal soundness. When you breed for speed, those breeders breed away from those NP sire lines, as they are stamina oriented.
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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby BenB » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:50 am

Aussies are speed freaks, even more than the US, but they do have some nice stayer races. 1 16 furlong race gr 1 the Melbourne Cup, the only handicaprace in the world on this level.

If yor argueiing with me, no problem but please inform you.

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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby louis finochio » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:43 am

SPRAGUE RIVER (USA) b. F, 2011 {10-a} DP = 6-7-8-1-0 (22) DI = 3.40 CD = 0.82 - 11 Starts, 3 Wins, 0 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $94,213

Owner: Rockingham Ranch
Breeder: Carl Asadurian
State Bred: CA
Winnings: 11 Starts: 3 - 0 - 0, $94,213


Won debut 25May2013 @ Hollywood Park 4.5f MC50000.

Sadly, broke down during race 4 @ Santa Anita 2/21/2015 @ was euthanized. RIP

SPRAGUE RIVER b. F, 2011
Tribal Rule---Tina;s Love, by Unbridleds Song

Sprague River was a type 1 FB, being inbre to 2 Ph. stallions, 4 X 4 ND---5 X 5 Nearctic. 1 Ph. mare 5 X 5 Natalma.

SR had 21 crosses Ph. stallions. Unbridleds Song BMS of SR is making a habit of appearing in the pedigrees of unsoundess.
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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby BenB » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:26 am

And as usual the names are flushing again, without proof without thorough investigations.

These are the stats from the CHRB:

Limb Dirt N/A Synthetic Turf Total
Left Front 32 0 16 7 55
Left Rear 0 2 0 3 5
Right Front 29 1 19 3 52
Right Rear 2 2 2 0 6
Pelvis 7 2 5 1 15
Skull 1 5 1 0 7
Vertebra 5 1 0 0 6
Various Structures 1 15 0 0 16
Total 77 28 43 14 162

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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby louis finochio » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:59 am

Yesterday i was talking to a trainer, that had a filly inbred to Storm Cat, top & bottom. The filly would pull up herself in a race. Her inbreeding to SC could have played major part in this mental weakness.
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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby louis finochio » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:17 am

BEN'S CAT (USA) dkb/br. G, 2006 {9-f} DP = 6-2-8-0-2 (18) DI = 2.00 CD = 0.56 - 45 Starts, 28 Wins, 6 Places, 4 Shows Career Earnings: $2,320,990

Owner: The Jim Stable
Breeder: K.T. Leatherbury Assoc. Inc.
State Bred: MD
Winnings: 45 Starts: 28 - 6 - 4, $2,320,990

At 4: Won Mister Diz S, MD Million Turf Sprint, Find H; 2nd Forty Niner S.
At 5: Won Mister Diz S, Turf Monster H-G3, Jim McKay Sprint, PA Governors Cup, Laurel Dash, MD Million Turf Sprint; 2nd Parx Dash

At 6: Won Turf Monster H-G3, Parx Dash, Fabulous Strike S, Mister Diz S, MD Million Turf Sprint

At 7: Won Parx Dash-G3, McKay Sprint, Laurel Dash, Fabulous Strike H, Mister Diz S

At 8: Won Parx Dash-G3, Mister Diz S, Fabulous Strike H; 2nd Turf Monster H-G3, MD Million Turf;

Foaled April 17, 2006.
Trainer: King T. Leatherbury.

Horse of the Year in Maryland, 2011, 2012, 2013.
Champion Turf Horse in Maryland, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013.
Champion Sprinter in Maryland, 2013.

BENS CAT br. G, 2006
Parkers Storm Cat---Twofox, by Thirty Eight Paces

Bens Cat is a NFB, being inbred to 1 Ph. stallion, 4 X 5 ND. One NP mare 5 X 5 Somethingroyal=Prince Rose.
Bens Cat has 21 crosses NP mares & 10 crosses NP stallions. We dont find that many crosses of NP stallions & mares, in those type 1 FB, that sustained career ending injuries.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio

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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby louis finochio » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:51 am

STORMY DAN (USA) ch. G, 2010 {4-k} DP = 5-9-10-1-1 (26) DI = 2.71 CD = 0.62 - 13 Starts, 1 Wins, 1 Places, 2 Shows Career Earnings: $25,113

Breeder: Star Barn Thoroughbred Breeder's Trust -A
State Bred: PA
Winnings: 13 Starts: 1 - 1 - 2, $25,113

Foaled March 15, 2010.
Sadly, broke down during race 2 @ Parx Racing 3/1/2015 & was euthanized on track. RIP

STORMY DAN ch. G, 2010
Changeintheweather---Stormy Danyelle, by Storm Breaker

Stormy Dan was a type 1 FB, being inbred to 4 Ph. stallions, 3 X 4 Mr. P.---4 X 5 Secretariat---5 X 5 ND---4 X 5 RAN.
One Ph. mare, 4 X 5 Gold Digger.

SD had 22 crosses Ph. stallions. SD carried the highest risk for unsoundness, through his prolofic crosses of Ph. individuals.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio

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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby BenB » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:52 am

Louis, the breakdowns in Cal were down last yr, only Del Mar was up thanks to the troubles with the new turf track earlier last yr. Out of competion tests are up and the punishment for overages is some up. improving tracks (slow them down) and tough penalties will do the trick, no doubt about that. Breeding is just a slice from the pie.

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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby louis finochio » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:37 am

Are the breeders becoming aware of intensive inbreeding to one sire line? I am not finding as many type 1 FB in the present, like i found 10 years ago.

The high degree of unsoundness, is the price a breeder pays when they plan a mating of type 1 FB. These matings have tilted our tb conformation & soundness. Thats why those type 2 FB matings have averaged more lifetime starts.
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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby BenB » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:58 am

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-b ... -database/

These are real stats and figures. Since the removal from the synth many horses have been dying at SA. The same counts last yr for the downhill turf course. It seems to be overloaden with races.

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Re: Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Postby louis finochio » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:29 am

LOVIN IT (USA) dkb/br. G, 2012 {13-c} DP = 4-2-8-0-0 (14) DI = 2.50 CD = 0.71 - 6 Starts, 0 Wins, 0 Places, 1 Shows Career Earnings: $5,652

Owner: Leslie A. Condon
Breeder: Leslie Condon & Nancy Camp
State Bred: WV

Foaled March 29, 2012.
Euthanized after breaking down in a race at Charles Town, March 11, 2015.

LOVIN IT br. G, 2012
Lion Hearted---Good Lovin, by Smarten

Lovin it was a NFB, being inbred to 1 Ph stallion 4 X 5 RAN.
Lovin It had 23 crosses Ph. stallions, a high figure for unsoundness.
Another NFB with prolific crosses of Ph. stallions, goes down with an injury.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio