Pedigree Query

Louis, it is just bullshit, as nor bold ruler, nor the mares that visit him are on these planetanymore.

So a duplication can not be made in these days.

Only problem is, that Louis can't count that high. We'll hear from him 3 weeks from now.

louis finochio wrote:BR was bred to 38 Ph. mares, that bred 5 SW or 13%. If you would have bought my book, you wouldnt have asked me for the above. I will post the % of SW when BR was bred to those NP mares next.

As always, Louis assumes that the male line is golden, and no other relationships have genetic meaning.

Louis, go back and look at how many times Bold Ruler was bred to daughters of Ambiorix (out of a daughter of Pharos) and Tulyar (out of a Nearco daughter; Tulyar 4 X 4 Phalaris).

I see he's still trying to count that high.

Bold Ruler's % of SW when bred to NP mares continued.

Chaucer 29 %----Fair Play 20 %----Gainsborough 29 %----Peter Pan 30 %----Prince Rose 25 %----Rabelais 33 %----Rock Sand 30 %----Teddy 22 %----Tourbillon 25 %

We can see what we lost, when these NP sire lines didnt carry on their respectives lines. Are soundness & nicking factors were delt a bad hand. As our breeders today, are faced with those FB & NFB matings of Ph. over Ph.

louis finochio wrote:Bold Ruler's % of SW when bred to NP mares continued.

Chaucer 29 %----Fair Play 20 %----Gainsborough 29 %----Peter Pan 30 %----Prince Rose 25 %----Rabelais 33 %----Rock Sand 30 %----Teddy 22 %----Tourbillon 25 %

We can see what we lost, when these NP sire lines didnt carry on their respectives lines. Are soundness & nicking factors were delt a bad hand. As our breeders today, are faced with those FB & NFB matings of Ph. over Ph.

None of these mares carried the y-chromosome of the stallions you listed them under. Not ONE!

He doesn't understand basic genetics, so they never will.

The winter meeting at Santa Anita ended today. As I posted earlier in this thread I collected data concerning the breakdown rate and the breeding of the horses that broke down during racing. In addition, I did the same for horses that demonstrated distress and had to be vanned off the course. The meeting covered 72 racing days with 4,910 starters. During the course of the meet there were 9 confirmed fatal breakdowns and 26 incidents that involved van offs. Of the 9 fatal breakdowns 5 were what Louis calls Non-Fashion Breds and 4 were Fashion Breds. Of the 26 van offs, 14 were Non-Fashion Breds and 12 were Fashion Breds. This is a small sample, however, it demonstrates that there was little difference between the number of Non-Fashion Breds and Fashion Breds that broke down or had to be vanned off.

72 racing days
4,910 starters
9 fatal breakdowns, 6 main track, 3 turf
26 vanned off, 19 main track, 7 turf.
Fatal breakdowns 5 NFB 4 FB
Van offs 14 NFB 12 FB

29 Dec 11 4th race main track Whats Up Betty, vanned off
4X5 Exclusive Native, NFB

01 Jan 12 4th race main track Faster Cat, vanned off
4X4 Northern Dancer 5X5 Nearctic, 5X5 Natalma,
5X5 Raise a Native, FB

05 Jan 12 5th race main track Coal Region Kid, put down*
4X4 Northern Dancer 4X4, Sir Ivor, 5X5 Nearctic,
5X5 Natalma, 5X5 Sir Gaylord, FB

06 Jan 12 4th race turf, Wild Rose, put down*
4X4 Mill Reef, NFB

08 Jan 12 1st race main track, Lady Lohr, vanned off
5X5 Bold Ruler, 5X5 Somethingroyal, NFB

08 Jan 12 7th race main track, Joker Face, put down*
4X5 Northern Dancer, 5X5 Tom Rolfe, NFB

12 Jan 12 3rd race turf, Shoo Gee, put down*
3X4 Storm Bird, 4X5 Northern Dancer,
5X5 Secretariat, 5X5 Nearctic, FB

12 Jan 12 7th race turf, Wrongful Suit, vanned off
4X5 Buckpasser, 5X5 Northern Dancer, NFB

13 Jan 12 6th race main track, Top Feeling, vanned off
4X5 Northern Dancer, 5X5 Turn-To, 5X5 Nashua, FB

13 Jan 12 6th race main track, Joyful Success, vanned off
4X5 Mr. Prospector, 5X5 Lucky Debonair, 5X5 Bold Ruler, NFB

19 Jan 12 7th race turf, Suance Flower, vanned off
4X5 Northern Dancer, NFB

20 Jan 12 3rd race turf, Shawklit Sundae, vanned off
3X4 Mr. Prospector, 4X5 Raise a Native, 4X5
Gold Digger, 5X5 Native Dancer, FB

22 Jan 12 6th race main track, The Director, vanned off
retired 23 Jan 12 due to ligament damage**
4X5 Bold Ruler, 5X5 Native Dancer, NFB

26 Jan 12 1st race main track, Teardrops On Fire, put down*.
4X5 Hail to Reason, 4X5 Princequillo, 5X5 Nashua,
NFB

02 Feb 12 2nd race main track, H.J.’s Kitty, vanned off.
5X5 Northern Dancer, 5X5 Secretariat, NFB

10 Feb 12 5th race turf, Tucky, vanned off.
Outcross, NFB

10 Feb 12 7th race turf, Pleasing Sunrise, vanned off.
4X5 Secretariat, 5X5 Bold Ruler, NFB

11 Feb 12 4th race main track, El Merito, put down*.
3X5 Northern Dancer, 4X4 Raise a Native,
4X5 Hail to Reason, 5X5X5 Native Dancer,
5X5 Nashua, FB

11 Feb 12 8th race main track, Pink Lollipops, vanned off.
5X5 Buckpasser, 5X5 Native Dancer, NFB

16 Feb 12 5th race main track, Party Mandate, vanned off.
4X4 Northern Dancer, 5X5 Nearctic,
5X5 Natalma, FB

20 Feb 12 1st race main track, Dang You Cactus, vanned off.
3X4 Seattle Slew, 4X4X5 Buckpasser,
4X5 Nashua, 5X5 Nearctic, FB

20 Feb 12 3rd race main track, Warren’s Anan, vanned off.
5X5 T.V. Lark, NFB

24 Feb 12 2nd race main track, Gambling Pokerface, vanned off.
4X4 Mr. Prospector, 5X5 Raise a Native, 5X5
Gold Digger, 4X5 Northern Dancer, FB

26 Feb 12 4th race turf, Moscato, vanned off.
4X5 Prince John, 5X5 Nasrullah NFB.

26 Feb 12 7th race main track, Details R Sketchy, vanned off,
4X5 Mr. Prospector, 5X5 Secretariat, 5X5 Northern
Dancer, 5X5 Raise a Native, FB.

3 Mar 12 2nd race, main track, Cat’s Enough, put down.*
4X5 Relko, NFB.

8 Mar 12 1st race, main track, Ms. Sweet Freedom, pulled up,
vanned off. Outcross, NFB.

11 Mar 12 5th race, main track, A Big To’Do, pulled up,
vanned off, 4X5 Nearctic, 5X5 Hyperion, NFB.

17 Mar 12 6th race, main track, Taylor Marini, pulled up, vanned
off, 3X3 Storm Bird, 4X4X5 Northern Dancer,
4X5 Secretariat, 5X5 Bold Ruler, FB

18 Mar 12 6th race, main track, Summers At Delmar, pulled up,
vanned off, 4X5 Turn-To, 4X5 Native Dancer,
5X5 Tom Fool, FB.

23 Mar 12 7th race, turf, That’s Dangerous, broke down,
put down, 5X5X5X5 Northern Dancer, NFB.

31 Mar 12 6th race, main track, Warrens Heartthrob, broke
down, put down, 3X4 Storm Bird, 4X5 Northern Dancer, 4X5 Secretariat, 5X5 Sir Gaylord, FB.

8 Apr 12 5th race, turf, Roman Chic,vanned off, 3X4 Danzig,
3X5 Mr. Prospector, 4X5 Northern Dancer, FB.

8 Apr 12 6th race, main track, Unusual Jewel, vanned off,
3X3 Northern Dancer, FB.


8 Apr 12 8th race, main track, Directors Room, vanned off,
4X4 Northern Dancer, 5X5 Nearctic, 5X5 Natalma
FB.

DDT

DDT wrote:The winter meeting at Santa Anita ended today. As I posted earlier in this thread I collected data concerning the breakdown rate and the breeding of the horses that broke down during racing. In addition, I did the same for horses that demonstrated distress and had to be vanned off the course. The meeting covered 72 racing days with 4,910 starters. During the course of the meet there were 9 confirmed fatal breakdowns and 26 incidents that involved van offs. Of the 9 fatal breakdowns 5 were what Louis calls Non-Fashion Breds and 4 were Fashion Breds. Of the 26 van offs, 14 were Non-Fashion Breds and 12 were Fashion Breds. This is a small sample, however, it demonstrates that there was little difference between the number of Non-Fashion Breds and Fashion Breds that broke down or had to be vanned off.

72 racing days
4,910 starters
9 fatal breakdowns, 6 main track, 3 turf
26 vanned off, 19 main track, 7 turf.
Fatal breakdowns 5 NFB 4 FB
Van offs 14 NFB 12 FB

29 Dec 11 4th race main track Whats Up Betty, vanned off
4X5 Exclusive Native, NFB

01 Jan 12 4th race main track Faster Cat, vanned off
4X4 Northern Dancer 5X5 Nearctic, 5X5 Natalma,
5X5 Raise a Native, FB

05 Jan 12 5th race main track Coal Region Kid, put down*
4X4 Northern Dancer 4X4, Sir Ivor, 5X5 Nearctic,
5X5 Natalma, 5X5 Sir Gaylord, FB

06 Jan 12 4th race turf, Wild Rose, put down*
4X4 Mill Reef, NFB

08 Jan 12 1st race main track, Lady Lohr, vanned off
5X5 Bold Ruler, 5X5 Somethingroyal, NFB

08 Jan 12 7th race main track, Joker Face, put down*
4X5 Northern Dancer, 5X5 Tom Rolfe, NFB

12 Jan 12 3rd race turf, Shoo Gee, put down*
3X4 Storm Bird, 4X5 Northern Dancer,
5X5 Secretariat, 5X5 Nearctic, FB

12 Jan 12 7th race turf, Wrongful Suit, vanned off
4X5 Buckpasser, 5X5 Northern Dancer, NFB

13 Jan 12 6th race main track, Top Feeling, vanned off
4X5 Northern Dancer, 5X5 Turn-To, 5X5 Nashua, FB

13 Jan 12 6th race main track, Joyful Success, vanned off
4X5 Mr. Prospector, 5X5 Lucky Debonair, 5X5 Bold Ruler, NFB

19 Jan 12 7th race turf, Suance Flower, vanned off
4X5 Northern Dancer, NFB

20 Jan 12 3rd race turf, Shawklit Sundae, vanned off
3X4 Mr. Prospector, 4X5 Raise a Native, 4X5
Gold Digger, 5X5 Native Dancer, FB

22 Jan 12 6th race main track, The Director, vanned off
retired 23 Jan 12 due to ligament damage**
4X5 Bold Ruler, 5X5 Native Dancer, NFB

26 Jan 12 1st race main track, Teardrops On Fire, put down*.
4X5 Hail to Reason, 4X5 Princequillo, 5X5 Nashua,
NFB

02 Feb 12 2nd race main track, H.J.’s Kitty, vanned off.
5X5 Northern Dancer, 5X5 Secretariat, NFB

10 Feb 12 5th race turf, Tucky, vanned off.
Outcross, NFB

10 Feb 12 7th race turf, Pleasing Sunrise, vanned off.
4X5 Secretariat, 5X5 Bold Ruler, NFB

11 Feb 12 4th race main track, El Merito, put down*.
3X5 Northern Dancer, 4X4 Raise a Native,
4X5 Hail to Reason, 5X5X5 Native Dancer,
5X5 Nashua, FB

11 Feb 12 8th race main track, Pink Lollipops, vanned off.
5X5 Buckpasser, 5X5 Native Dancer, NFB

16 Feb 12 5th race main track, Party Mandate, vanned off.
4X4 Northern Dancer, 5X5 Nearctic,
5X5 Natalma, FB

20 Feb 12 1st race main track, Dang You Cactus, vanned off.
3X4 Seattle Slew, 4X4X5 Buckpasser,
4X5 Nashua, 5X5 Nearctic, FB

20 Feb 12 3rd race main track, Warren’s Anan, vanned off.
5X5 T.V. Lark, NFB

24 Feb 12 2nd race main track, Gambling Pokerface, vanned off.
4X4 Mr. Prospector, 5X5 Raise a Native, 5X5
Gold Digger, 4X5 Northern Dancer, FB

26 Feb 12 4th race turf, Moscato, vanned off.
4X5 Prince John, 5X5 Nasrullah NFB.

26 Feb 12 7th race main track, Details R Sketchy, vanned off,
4X5 Mr. Prospector, 5X5 Secretariat, 5X5 Northern
Dancer, 5X5 Raise a Native, FB.

3 Mar 12 2nd race, main track, Cat’s Enough, put down.*
4X5 Relko, NFB.

8 Mar 12 1st race, main track, Ms. Sweet Freedom, pulled up,
vanned off. Outcross, NFB.

11 Mar 12 5th race, main track, A Big To’Do, pulled up,
vanned off, 4X5 Nearctic, 5X5 Hyperion, NFB.

17 Mar 12 6th race, main track, Taylor Marini, pulled up, vanned
off, 3X3 Storm Bird, 4X4X5 Northern Dancer,
4X5 Secretariat, 5X5 Bold Ruler, FB

18 Mar 12 6th race, main track, Summers At Delmar, pulled up,
vanned off, 4X5 Turn-To, 4X5 Native Dancer,
5X5 Tom Fool, FB.

23 Mar 12 7th race, turf, That’s Dangerous, broke down,
put down, 5X5X5X5 Northern Dancer, NFB.

31 Mar 12 6th race, main track, Warrens Heartthrob, broke
down, put down, 3X4 Storm Bird, 4X5 Northern Dancer, 4X5 Secretariat, 5X5 Sir Gaylord, FB.

8 Apr 12 5th race, turf, Roman Chic,vanned off, 3X4 Danzig,
3X5 Mr. Prospector, 4X5 Northern Dancer, FB.

8 Apr 12 6th race, main track, Unusual Jewel, vanned off,
3X3 Northern Dancer, FB.


8 Apr 12 8th race, main track, Directors Room, vanned off,
4X4 Northern Dancer, 5X5 Nearctic, 5X5 Natalma
FB.

DDT

Hi DDT,

Hold on 1 minute,

that means stamina breaks down more often,
but did
you consider speed runs less of a distance!!!

regard's

Siegy,

Check those NFB & see how many of them had prolific crosses of those Ph. FS & mares. Then we will find their inherited weakness of unsoundness.

Many of those NFB have tons of single crosses of those Ph. stallions & mares, that dosent show up in their Inbreeding.

Bold Ruler's soundest progeny of SW when bred to NP mares continued.

Lamb Chop 23 starts----Batteur 50 starts----Chieftain 36 starts----Speedwell 33 starts----Bold Commander 41 starts----Ornamento 23 starts----Beautiful Day 41 starts----Bold Queen 24 starts----Bold Bidder 33 starts----Bold Lad 19 starts----Gamely 41 starts----Dewam 20 starts----Cestrum 47 starts----Queen Empress 33 starts----Heartland 28 starts.

Notice how BR filly's & mares had prolific numbers of starts, as our tbs of the present are retired early to the breeding shed, after a few lifetime starts.

Louis, them list from BR off spring and their starts, combine nicely with the fact that I,ve read somewhere from the use off.

Overhere them starts are just normal.

louis finochio wrote:Notice how BR filly's & mares had prolific numbers of starts, as our tbs of the present are retired early to the breeding shed, after a few lifetime starts.

Typical numbers for the racing in the 1960s and 1970s, Louis. These are all females:

Susan's Girl (1969) 63 starts
Lady Pitt (1963) 29 starts
Syrian Sea (1965) 26 starts
Shuvee (1966) 44 starts
Dark Mirage (1965) 27 starts
Prides Profile (1963) 66 starts
Cicada (1959) 42 starts

Mares are invisible to Louis. Foals pop up out of the ground like dandelions.

Did he mention the long-running geldings in his recent listing, as well ? Same silly procedure as in any listing so far, I think.

What is more interesting to me: when will this thread reach it's 1,000-pages-marker? Before the Maya-Calendar runs out at Solstice in December 2012?


What will happen in case of our dear Louis joins those horses on the ever-green-meadows before that date? Will we keep on this thread as a memorial for "are" beloved old chap, who gave us with his steady persistancy so many hours of pleasure and heartily laughter over so many years?