pedigree puzzler... (Son of St. Crispin)

[JimbleBrimble]

I remember this freak of a horse from years gone by... Son of St. Crispin...

He went his entire race career sporting the screwy pedigree:

by St. Crispin from Sass, (who was) by St. Crispin (too!!)

Consider the horse's name for confirmation of this, but I'm also sitting in front of a 30-year-old racing program which confirms the pedigree as written there.

Curiously, he is listed in the database now as being by "Pet Bully".

My question is this:

Is it now likely that some sort of blood-typing/dna verification has (finally) been possible (in only recent years) to confirm that this supposed "Son of St. Crispin" is really by Pet Bully?

Oooooooor, did someone browsing pedigrees just not believe what they saw, and reach out for SOMETHING more believable to enter into the database?

I have to admit to never having seen another such pedigree on the track... but certainly a handful of offspring both by the same sire have mated to produce racers over time.

Did this 1 x 2 pedigree really exist? or not?

[Pan Zareta]

Oooooooor, did someone browsing pedigrees just not believe what they saw, and reach out for SOMETHING more believable to enter into the database?

I have to admit to never having seen another such pedigree on the track... but certainly a handful of offspring both by the same sire have mated to produce racers over time.

Did this 1 x 2 pedigree really exist? or not?

Good question. He's officially x Pet Bully and has been for at least 9 yrs (ref. APRs et al.). But I don't have the Stud Book w/ his foal record, which *might* show his sire as "Pet Bully or St. Crispin" in which case the last covering sire would be credited with the foal unless or until more probative evidence was available.

[Lucy]

Could the pedigree in the Racing Form have been a typo? It would be an honest enough error, given his name.

Apart from that, PZ's idea seems most likely.

[Pedigree Ann]

My 1974 issue of the Blood-Horse Stakes-Winners annual has a 4-cross pedigree of Son of St. Crispin as being by St. Crispin out of Belle W., by St. Crispin: the second dam, War Hysteria was a full sister to War Admiral!

However my current APR shows the Belle W. 1970 foal by St. Crispin as a gelding named Sass A Bull, who ran 14 times an never won. The stakes-winning Son of St. Crispin (who won 13 of 86 starts) is shown as a colt by Pet Bully out of Sass by St. Crispin.

So, did the weanlings or yearlings get switched at some point and get sorted out later? Since the JC made the change after SoSC had raced, there must be a history of the investigation leading to the change, somewhere.

[CA Michael]

There was a horse by St. Crispin out of a daughter--I remember seeing it in a sales catalog many years ago. I haven't done any research on its performance, but I know for a fact that such an animal existed.

[JimbleBrimble]

WOW,

(plays down the part about not having seen these responses for nearly SIX YEARS - but who's counting?)


With your wonderful assistance I have just been able to view PP's and official database pedigrees for both Son of St. Crispin AND for "Sass A Bull". The latter having last raced on April 25, 1976 at "Lex" (wherever that was) (Lexington???).


Son of St. Crispin = by Pet Bully-Sass, by St. Crispin

(yeah yeah, pity the name)


Sass A Bull = by St. Crispin-Belle W., by St. Crispin


(I think somebody should put THAT one in the pedigree database here)

(St. Crispin is by Bull Lea, if it matters...)


Both of the steeds in question were foals of 1970, one a horse and the other a gelding.


Now pause if you will to turn back the hands of time and ask yourselves whyyyyyyyyyyyyy some six-year-old maiden was racing back in racing's glory days. (they waited to see if he'd run to his pedigree???)



It seems so commonplace now, that you're not even caused to wonder...


Maybe we don't have to ask whyyyyyyyyyyyy he was a six-year-old maiden.

And don't worry about me, for I think I won 80 cents on the false-pedigreed Son of St. Crispin, who I bet in the final live race of the day after Seattle Slew had won the Belmont on TV earlier.

(thus the reason this 'came up' now - reminiscing {not about the 80-cent score} )

[Pan Zareta]

Sass A Bull = by St. Crispin-Belle W., by St. Crispin


(I think somebody should put THAT one in the pedigree database here)

For better or worse, Sass A Bull is now in the db. For some perspective on his inbreeding, have a look at the pedigree of Jim T.