Dumb Question

vineyridge · Postby **vineyridge** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:20 pm

I see this occasionally. Usually it's US to Europe, but sometimes it's the reverse.

Bold Lad is by Bold Ruler; his dam was a UK/IRE bred who had several other European foals, but no US breds. Were they shuttling mares in the 1960s from Europe to breed to US stallions? Did Bold Ruler shuttle to Ireland?

I always get kind of spooked when I see a US stallion bred to a foreign mare for a foreign registered foal in the days before shuttling became common and overseas air travel was very difficult

xfactor fan · Postby **xfactor fan** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:28 pm

There are two Bold Lads by Bold Ruler.

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10120353

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=162386

DDT · Postby **DDT** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:22 am

vineyridge

The only dumb questions are the ones that are never asked. The answer to your question is yes prior to stallion shuttling the mares were shipped. In this case, the dam of the Irish bred Bold Lad, Barn Pride, was bred to Bold Ruler in Kentucky and then shipped back to Ireland. Foals are registered in the State or Country they are born in not where they were conceived. As it turned out the mating produced the English and Irish 2 year old Champion of 1966. The Kentucky bred Bold Lad is out of Misty Morn, foaled in 1962, he was the U.S. Champion 2 year old in 1964.

DDT

Pan Zareta · Postby **Pan Zareta** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:11 am

...and the dam (Barn Pride GB 1957) of Bold Lad IRE 1964 is shown on my old APR CD as an import to NorthAm that was sent to Ireland in 1963. The ASB would have more details, but none of mine are that recent.

DDT · Postby **DDT** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:23 pm

It is hard to tell if the mare was sent to N.A. for the express purpose of being bred to Bold Ruler, but it was very difficult to get a booking to Bold Ruler, so my guess is the owner of Barn Pride had some influence with the Phipps family or made a strong argument for the mare or both. Whatever the reason behind the mating, the result was a 2 year old champion. Equibase has Bold Lad (Ireland) as being foaled on January 1, 1964, talk about calling it close.....

DDT

Lucy · Postby **Lucy** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:56 pm

DDT I would take the foaling date at Equibase with a grain of salt. They list Jan 1 as a default when they do not have an actual date on record, and it appears their records on foaling dates only go back so far (to the 1950s for US runners; much later for Europe).

DDT · Postby **DDT** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:04 pm

Lucy

I thought that exact thing when I saw the date January 1 listed. Now it would be nice to know why the breeders/owners named him Bold Lad when the Bold Lad (U.S.A.) was racing and becoming a 2 year old Champion the year Bold Lad (Ireland) was foaled. Stranger than fiction.

DDT

Bast · Postby **Bast** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:40 pm

DDT wrote:Lucy

I thought that exact thing when I saw the date January 1 listed. Now it would be nice to know why the breeders/owners named him Bold Lad when the Bold Lad (U.S.A.) was racing and becoming a 2 year old Champion the year Bold Lad (Ireland) was foaled. Stranger than fiction.

DDT

I have forgotten the exact relationship, but I believe the breeder of the Barn Pride Bold Lad was a relation of the Phipps family.

Patuxet · Postby **Patuxet** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:59 pm

Bold Lad II was bred by American-born Beatrice Mills Forbes, 8th Countess of Granard, sister of Gladys Mills Phipps and Ogden L. Mills, owners of Wheatley Stable which owned and bred his sire, Bold Ruler.

For further information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bold_Lad_II and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatrice_M ... of_Granard

vineyridge · Postby **vineyridge** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:35 am

Thanks for the explanation. Barn Pride is not in my very old APR, but she is in my EPR with all GB and IRE bred foals. One 1962 GB foal, then 1964 Bold Lad II (Ire). After him all of hers are GB. That's why I asked. She must have been shipped for breeding and then immediately sent back home. I just didn't know that was happening back then.

Pan Zareta · Postby **Pan Zareta** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:08 pm

vineyridge wrote:Thanks for the explanation. Barn Pride is not in my very old APR, but she is in my EPR with all GB and IRE bred foals. One 1962 GB foal, then 1964 Bold Lad II (Ire). After him all of hers are GB. That's why I asked. She must have been shipped for breeding and then immediately sent back home. I just didn't know that was happening back then.

BP is in the 'Foals' section of my 1998 APR CD.

vineyridge · Postby **vineyridge** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:16 am

Pan Zareta wrote:
vineyridge wrote:Thanks for the explanation. Barn Pride is not in my very old APR, but she is in my EPR with all GB and IRE bred foals. One 1962 GB foal, then 1964 Bold Lad II (Ire). After him all of hers are GB. That's why I asked. She must have been shipped for breeding and then immediately sent back home. I just didn't know that was happening back then.

BP is in the 'Foals' section of my 1998 APR CD.

Mine too. I never thought to look in the foals section.