The Official "Speed Gene" thread.

Understanding pedigrees, inbreeding, dosage, etc.

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Bast
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Postby Bast » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:35 pm

griff wrote:Shammy

I always thought "intelligent horse" was a oxymoron.

My guess is their intelligence level is somewhere around that of a chicken or a sheep. Certainly not as sharp as a goat or a mule.

Or should i have posted this in your mud slinging trend?/

grff


They're prey animals. They think like prey animals.

I've noticed a wide range in intelligence in horses. Some are just plain dull witted--and some are not.
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Shammy Davis
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Postby Shammy Davis » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:14 pm

Griff: Research has shown that the horse is just below the elephant on the intelligence scale. Science has mixed results on the intelligence of horse owners and trainers. Certainly from anecdotal evidence racehorse owners have intelligence ratings just above the one celled amoeba or paramecium, but then we all know where anecdotal evidence can lead you. On the inbreeding thread the author tells us that racehorses talk to us about themselves. As Docojoy pointed out that is parallel universe thinking. Personally you know what I think and I compare it to a "loose stool missing the toilet." Talking horses are for TV shows and sanitorium conversation.

As long as we can play nice, this thread is the place to be. Madelyn still hasn't replied to my last shout out, so I'm hoping for something imaginative in the very next post. Well, hopefully imaginative, she is an owner. She is also a breeder so that decreases her intelligent response time, so if you need to rant or mud sling, have at it we might have to wait awhile.

Bill from WA
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Postby Bill from WA » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:10 pm

Shammy Davis wrote: [quote]The key is the picture. Bloodstock science maynot be as complicated as we make it. You just have to know what to look for.[/quote]

http://www.jwequine.com/conformation.html
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Bill from WA
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Postby Bill from WA » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:15 pm

Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is like a broken winged bird that cannot fly.



Langston Hughes

Shammy Davis
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Postby Shammy Davis » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:26 pm

Bill: As usual you are as sharp as a tack. I'd already seen the functional conformation article. I think my point was that when evaluating a horse, particularly those with obvious flaws or overall marginal looks and appeal, the trainer or buyer needs to search out the physical traits that are truly desirable. I guess that was also the point, I was making in some respects to the two "train wrecked" mares I have here. Intelligence probably help them overcome some physical obstacles. I don't have such a keen eye and had I not taken a great deal of time observing them, someone else might own them now.

Interesting read about animal IQ's. I notice it didn't have a comparison between the horse and its owners. :lol:

Best wishes.

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Postby griff » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:12 am

Great post Bill

can't wait to send the results of the Oregon State University position on turkeys to my two at VT.

also, the finding that horses are smarter than cows does not, in my opinion, make them candidates for National Merit Scholarships.

I grew up on a farm and my on-hands experience is they are dumb as dirt. Team a horse and mule to a turning plow and if you are not careful the mule will kill the horse by only pulling enough to keep the traces tight while the harder it goes the harder the horse will pull.

You never have to stop and rest a pair of mules but horses will kill themselves if they do not get periodic rest stops, especially if they are paired wil a mule.

I give the horse an A+ for heart but a D- for brains.

griff
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Postby DDT » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:36 am

griff

So, in your mind you believe because horses are willing to work until they drop dead is a sign of a lack of intelligence and a mule's unwillingness to work as a sign of intelligence. I believe you are looking at this as if the participants were human.

DDT

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diomed
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Postby diomed » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:29 am

Ok, back to the CC and TT, CT, etc....
If Nearco carried a C (which I am 100% sure he did) then were would Nearctic get his other C on his dam side of his pedigree. I know it isn't Hyperion, who is a TT...So, I am scratching my head trying to figure out where that other C comes from. lol. Any suspicions?

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Postby Shammy Davis » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:35 am

Is it possible that Neartic got his other "C" in his early schooling? :roll:

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diomed
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Postby diomed » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:39 am

Shammy Davis wrote:Is it possible that Neartic got his other "C" in his early schooling? :roll:

Have they found any proof that environmental factors can change an allele on a chromosome? I don't recall reading this in the initial paper. (and why were you rolling your eyes at me). :(

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Postby Shammy Davis » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:04 am

Obviously, the only information I have to offer on this subject is sarcasm. When I referenced "schooling" I was joking about getting a letter grade in school. Just me being stupid. My knowledge of what you chromosome gurus are discussing is so limited as to be unrecognizable. I was rolling my eyes for myself and not at you. So, there you are, I can't even get the emoticons right on this thread. I should stick to posting links and exchanging insults.

I will say one thing about the intelligence discussion. Recent human studies have produced some thoughts on "wisdom" suggesting that environmental factors do play a significant role related to our intelligence. Whether, there are genetic changes, I'll have to defer to you and the other PQ experts. It is believed that the human brain reaches maturity around 25 years of age, while the value of "wisdom" does not begin playing a role in our thinking until 35 or 40. It is likely there is the same cognitive relationship in the horse.

This brings up the issue of parenting and environment. Does a child's or young horses brain mature faster if " environmental wisdom" is available earlier in life.

We know that weanlings removed from mares sometimes regress for a time. We also know that in our rush to produce athleticism, we further isolate the intelligent functioning of equine thinking by placing them in confined spaces unrelated to open spaces they require.

Does it matter whether we know where the Neartic's other C came from? Yes. Is it imperative that we find out? No. Is this an interesting discussion? Yes.

I'll be quiet now.

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siegy
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Postby siegy » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:36 am

Shammy Davis wrote:Is it possible that Neartic got his other "C" in his early schooling? :roll:


Hi,


lucy........from Africa.........
hush............,

Siegy,
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diomed
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Postby diomed » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:42 am

I got your meaning now Shammy. Thanks for clarifying. No harm, no foul. :lol:

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Bast
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Postby Bast » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:19 am

Shammy Davis wrote:I will say one thing about the intelligence discussion. Recent human studies have produced some thoughts on "wisdom" suggesting that environmental factors do play a significant role related to our intelligence. Whether, there are genetic changes, I'll have to defer to you and the other PQ experts. It is believed that the human brain reaches maturity around 25 years of age, while the value of "wisdom" does not begin playing a role in our thinking until 35 or 40. It is likely there is the same cognitive relationship in the horse.


Starvation, traumatic experiences will affect people and their thinking.

But programs of 'enrichment'--Head Start, etc., lose all apparent benefits after a few years.

"Intelligence" is a lot of things, but much of it's genetic. When large families were more commonplace, this was obvious with all the children relatively smart or relatively dull. They might not be academically distinguished, but watching them interact with people revealed their smarts or lack of them.
May 2013: Plan ahead now for the Phalaris/Teddy Centennial!

*****************************

A horse gallops with his lungs

Perseveres with his heart

And wins with his character. --Tesio

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Postby griff » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:58 am

Yep, that and many other hands-on observations.

griff
"We has met the enemy and he is us" [Pogo]