too much of a good thing?

[xfactor fan]

mtDNA and Lowe's numbers may only be related by chance. Lowe most certainly didn't know about mtDNA, when he was tracking female families. And it has only been in the last few years that the importance of mtDNA and energy production has been investigated.

Lowe did the best he could with the resources he had to work with, but there are a number of errors as many folks have pointed out, and science has proven.

And there is evidence that mtDNA does have some effect on distance preference.

While all matings are a genetic roll of the dice, more information can only help the breeder get the outcome they want.

Understanding the cream gene has allowed breeders to produce 100% palominos. Or buckskins, or smokey creams to use just one example.

Understanding how mtDNA interacts and affects the expression of other genes may be more complicated but just as rewarding as producing 100% palomino foals.

[Shammy Davis]

xfactor wrote:

mtDNA and Lowe's numbers may only be related by chance. Lowe most certainly didn't know about mtDNA, when he was tracking female families. And it has only been in the last few years that the importance of mtDNA and energy production has been investigated.

Lowe did the best he could with the resources he had to work with, but there are a number of errors as many folks have pointed out, and science has proven.

And there is evidence that mtDNA does have some effect on distance preference.

While all matings are a genetic roll of the dice, more information can only help the breeder get the outcome they want.

Understanding the cream gene has allowed breeders to produce 100% palominos. Or buckskins, or smokey creams to use just one example.

Understanding how mtDNA interacts and affects the expression of other genes may be more complicated but just as rewarding as producing 100% palomino foals.

Well put.

http://www.mitotyper.com/

and here's an interesting read right from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

http://www.pedigreepost.net/archives/St ... p2004.html

[xfactor fan]

Any idea what the mitotyper guy is up to today?

I'd love to replace, or add, mtDNA type to family information. Like family 1-x mtDNA type34, or whatever nomenclature is currently accepted.

Is anyone offering mtDNA testing?

[parlo]

Does anybody know something about / or research interaction between mtDNA and the "C/T"-gene-combination (the so-called "speed"-gene)?

Both items should have an influence on distance preference of a horse.


Is there a general overview on which gene-tests are actually available for tbs?

[brogers]

This would be wonderful, but it means that a "total" data base dating back at least 3 generations has to be involved. Every single mare in a foal crop has to be included per chance the mare (raced or unraced) is used in a subsequent mating.

In terms of all of the mares in North America, and certainly most of those in Europe, this is easily possible with the data from the Jockey Club Information Systems. It may struggle with mares that are born in South America and South Africa where their data only goes back to the 1990's. Obviously it would need to be researched first by animal scientists who do this for a living, but it is certainly possible.

[brogers]

But isn't that what the Dosage is about. And most "experts" poo-poo those figures. Brogers, how would the figures you propose be different?

Thanks

Chuck

Chuck

It is very different to Dosage, a figure again which is not heritable. Take a look at these three papers which outline what I am talking about

http://www.asas.org/western04/proceedings/0082.pdf

http://animres.edpsciences.org/index.ph ... Itemid=129

(click on the PDF link)

http://arch-anim-breed.fbn-dummerstorf. ... 04p505.pdf

[Barcaldine]

Not hard to see what's coming up next from the Nickster Machine--True E-Gimmicks Part Two.

[brogers]

Any idea what the mitotyper guy is up to today?

I'd love to replace, or add, mtDNA type to family information. Like family 1-x mtDNA type34, or whatever nomenclature is currently accepted.

Is anyone offering mtDNA testing?

I saw Loren at the Pedigree & Genetics conference in September. He is still working away on it although it is pretty expensive to do.

Unfortunately I don't think that mtDNA haplotype information is going to come anytime soon, at least from an official source. Steve Harrison of Thoroughbred Genetics has a patent on the use of thoroughbred mtDNA for the classification of the horse (among other things), which possibly rules out widespread changes such as this.

[brogers]

Not hard to see what's coming up next from the Nickster Machine--True E-Gimmicks Part Two.

Yawn! Sorry to disappoint Michael but I actually think it would be better if the Jockey Club developed these themselves and the figures were made free with any 5x that was run. Equally, it the development of them is something that would need to be handled by a couple of Professors trained in population genetics/heritability. I do think that it would help people breed a better racehorse though.

[Shammy Davis]

Brogers replied to Barky:

Yawn!

Well said.

[xfactor fan]

A lot of the mtDNA information is already public. At least enough so that anyone with a horse can make a pretty good idea which type of mtDNA they are working with.

Will the mitotyper run samples if folks want their horses typed? His website doesn't mention looking for samples, but he also doesn't give any information on how he get the samples he's running.

And if the information is still current, he's finding a 20-25% error rate.

[Shammy Davis]

Xfactor, try this email address. You know what questions to ask.

[email protected]

[Pan Zareta]

Not hard to see what's coming up next from the Nickster Machine--True E-Gimmicks Part Two.

Fwiw, I share your skepticism re. the general usefulness of sire-driven statistical analyses. Genetic testing, however, is not a "gimmick". The improvement it's brought to breeders' chances for success, by making matings less of a guessing game, in certain other livestock industries is well documented in peer-reviewed and popular literature. Why improved chances for success would not be viewed as a desirable development by any breeder of TBs to race is beyond me.

Steve Harrison of Thoroughbred Genetics has a patent on the use of thoroughbred mtDNA for the classification of the horse (among other things), which possibly rules out widespread changes such as this.

It's a shame that there were relatively few published equine coding region mt sequences when the report from SPH & JT-G was being reviewed for publication. Their published partial coding region sequences are notable, when compared to the same fragments from the recently published full equine mt sequences of Achilli et al. and Lippold et al., for a curious absence of certain definitive haplogroup markers, an unusually high number of polymorphisms overall, and in several cases truly extraordinary transition:transverion ratios. Whether these facts, had they been apparent 6-8 yrs ago, would have resulted in events transpiring differently, I've no idea. But it's an illuminating comparison.

Will the mitotyper run samples if folks want their horses typed? His website doesn't mention looking for samples, but he also doesn't give any information on how he get the samples he's running.

Loren's a prominent New Mexico O/B. Several years ago he put out requests for samples from female families that he didn't have access to, locally. I sent him one at that time. Haven't seen any requests for samples since then. If there's a horse/family you want tested you could always email & ask.

[zinn21]

Pan Zareta wrote:

Genetic testing, however, is not a "gimmick

Exactly how does genetic testing make "matings less of a guessing game" ?

All I can find is it is a good way to cull out known genetic disorders.

[xfactor fan]

To go back to the example of palominos, knowing the exact genetic color of the horses allows the breeder a much better chance of producing the desired color.

Knowing the T/C genes of the horse allows selection for distance and maturity.

Better information allows breeders to make better choices.