Nicking for this TB mare

[boots218]

I am considering purchasing a TB mare to cross on QH for racing. Would anyone like to give me some advice with regards to what TB lines I should look for in my QH stallions to potentially cross with her? Thank you. The mare's name is Baby Deed. Her sire is Yes Indeed out of a mare by the name of Money Happy.

[Keith]

Several lines I would consider for Quarter Horse breeding. I would look for a mare with lots of speed leaving the gates and a speedy pedigree.

Lets look at some top Quarter Horse bloodlines

Dash For Cash traces to Imperatrice on his mares side. Thoroughbreds that trace back to Imperatrice include Cure the Blues and Secretariat. I would consider Cure the Blues where he is out of Dr. Fager mare. I would also consider Storm Cat bloodlines where he is out of Terlingua by Secretariat.

The Signature is by Noholme II. I would consider Favorite Trick who was horse of the Year and champion 2 year old and out of a Medieval Man mare. Medieval Man is by Noholme II

I would also consider
Lost Soldier
Siphon
Artax
Housebuster
Lion Hearted


Keith

[boots218]

That is very helpful Keith, thank you. I will pay close attention to these bloodlines in mares I am looking at. So, I assume you are saying that you do not feel this mare would be that good of a cross with Quarter Horses, correct?
This mare is 4x5 to Northern Dancer and Native Dancer. 5x5 to Raise You. 5x6 to Man O War and 6x6 to Selene. Not a good QH cross?
What about Special Effort (our only QH triple crown winner)? He is by Raise Your Glass (Raise a Native x Raise You). He is 3x4 to Spotted Bull, 4x5 to Bull Dog and 5x5 to Man O War. You don't think this mare will cross with this stallion line?

[Bill from WA]

Hi

I have found that the conduit profiles are a good indicator of early speed. In the recent "American Dream Derby" TV show, the profiles predicted the winner of every 2 furlong winner except one, and in that race the runners were only 1 point (and a head at the finish) apart in the speed ranges. The profile for the mare you are considering has a profile of: 8-5-2-4-7 (13/11) (1.15) (11.42). Pretty well balanced.
This profile, even though it does have significant Brilliant points, indicates a runner that might be best at 7 furlongs to 1 mile. However, because of her high Brilliant points, she might work out with QH sires. I would look for a mare that tilts heavily toward the speed aptitudes (the left side of the profile).

Bill

[boots218]

Bill,
I appreciate that insight. I will do a little reading on this subject and take a look at some of the past TB that have crossed well on the QHs to see if they show this tendency. Part of the reason that I have favored this mare is that many of the Quarter horses are now so inbred/linebred to First Down Dash and Chicks Beduino, that we are beginning to see horses that can no longer make the classic 440yds. (They are better at 300-350yds). I felt this type of mare may be the cross for these stallions.

[ZiaLand]

Boots, for what it's worth, I believe Storm Cat was a major influence in at least two of the pedigrees of All American Futurity finalists in 2004 (the winner Dm Shicago and 3rd place finisher Devon's Signature.) When I was breeding QH runners many moons ago, I always looked for What Luck in the pedigrees, a TB son of Bold Ruler who produced champions in both breeds.

Laurie

[Keith]

It is hard to say if she would cross well with Quarter Horses. Nijinsky II, Sir Ivor,and Alleged liked a route of ground. Sir Harry Lewis is the broodmare sire of Volponi who won the Breeder's Cup Classic going 1 1/4 miles. Is she a speed mare? I would look for speed mares. I think my mare White Wedding may cross well with Quarter Horses where she has lots of early speed leaving the gates and she is by Siphon but she has long distance in her pedigree with His Majesty and Prince John so who knows. I think Danzig and Blushing Groom lines could cross well with Quarter Horses. Holy Bull mares may cross well with Quarter Horses. You can find mares with less than spectacular pedigrees but have speed which may cross well with Quarter Horses.

Keith

[boots218]

When I compare the dosage profiles of some of the TB mares that have produced prominant QH runners, I am finding a mix of speed profiles with those showing more stamina in their profiles. Examples: Find a Buyer(dam of Dash for Cash) 3 1 15 1 0; Shirley's Champion(dam of Hawkish and Hawkinson) 9 6 15 0 0; Trippy Dip(dam of Calyx and Florentine) 9 13 4 2 0 this mare's offspring were 870 champions; Hijo Beauty(granddam of Special Effort) 8 0 0 9 3; Miss Prevel(Special Task-sire of last year's champion 2yo) 10 1 9 0 0;Cherry Lake 3 4 13 5 1; and Moosashinnin(granddam of sire of this year's champion 2yo Azoom) 6 8 3 1 0
Looking at these numbers, I get the impression that a mare with a DP of 4 7 9 2 0 would tend to cross better with the QH sires, am I mistaken?

[madelyn]

First, using dosage is extremely unreliable as it only takes into account sires in the horse's pedigree that have been designated chefs-de-race by the creator of the dosage system. It does not take mares into account which make up half of the pedigree. That said, the dosage you have come up with would be for a horse with more distance capability than speed. If you were going to use dosage as an indicator you would want the weight of the points to be in the Brilliant and/or Classic positions (the first two) because to cross with QH you would still want to restrict the TB portion to the sprinters.