Stallions in the X of Derby winners and second placers

[stancaris]

To all: I did a study to find out which stallions appear most often in the X passing positions of Derby winners and second place finishers from 1968-2014. I looked at 7 positions on the dam side where stallions appeared in the first 5 generations only. These were the first, second, third and fourth damsire, the maternal grandsire of the broodmare sire and the two stallions in the fifth generation that can transmit their X chromosome. The following are the results of that study:

Stallion------------Number of Times That Stallion Appeared In the X Passing Position On the Dam Side

Buckpasser----------18
Mahmoud-----------15
War Admiral---------12
Alibhai--------------8
Tom Fool------------8
Princequillo----------7
Blue Larkspur--------7
Bull Lea-------------7
Bull Dog-------------7
Sir Gallahad----------6
Nasrullah------------6
Djeddah-------------6
Nashua--------------5
Secretariat-----------5
Equipoise------------5
Northern Dancer------5
Polynesian-----------5

All the rest had 4 presences or less. Not surprisingly, Buckpasser is the leader with Mahmoud and War Admiral the next most frequent.

[hpkingjr]

Interesting. Mahmoud was most interesting. He was born in 1933. Wonder what his numbers were from 1940 to 1967.

[Joeindy]

Stan,
How much research have you conducted with respect to Conduit Mares? Over the past few years, I have been in touch with Bill Lathrop and purchased his 2008 edition of Conduit Mares. I have been applying this criteria to my handicapping the Kentucky Derby which has enabled me to find those horses which others have missed. My knowledge of breeding really accelerated with the help of the late Leon Rasmussen. We had many phone conversations about the Derby, breeding, and spotting the RF's. Have you looked into the conduit mare 4x4 pedigree profile of California Chrome, Commanding Curve, Golden Soul, etc...to evaluate the conduit mare profile and the transcendent mares?

Have you conducted any analysis with respect to Storm Cat in derby pedigrees? If my math is correct, 44 derby starters contained Storm Cat in the sire-line and none have won. There have been 19 starters that contain Storm Cat in the broodmare sire line and none have won. Three have come close, Ice Box, Bodemeister, and Commanding Curve. Yet, these three came from superior tail-female lines such as Doxa, Sanfara, and Popinjay.

Any thoughts you might like to share?

[stancaris]

JoeIndy: I only use conduit mares in tail female when handicapping the Ky Derby, Preakness and Belmont. The mares in tail female are the only mares that can transmit identical mt-DNA to a foal. That is--the mt-DNA is transmitted from female to female to female in tail female unchanged thru the generations for the most part. For Example: the strong conduit mares: Cherokee Rose (ORB), Countess Wanda (California Chrome) might have been somewhat responsible for the success of the above runners by transmitting the same mt-DNA along the tail female line. So, Orb received the exact same mt-DNA that was carried by the conduit mare Cherokee Rose and California Chrome received the same mt-DNA that was present in Countess Wanda. Ill have another had the same mt-DNA that was present in Broom Flower.

Storm Cat in general has not been successful in generating stakes winners at 10 furlongs or longer on dirt.