Texas Thoroughbred Forum

keyranch · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:18 am Post subject:

I was afraid of that. In Oklahoma it is Blue Ribbon Downs closing in Salisaw. There are many ways to improve the funding of racing and the Texas bred fund in Texas.

One of the problems with slots in Texas is that it will open the door for Indian Casinos in Texas. The opening of another casino in Ok is responsible for the closure of BRD. I have questioned for years the slots or nothing crowd about indian gaming in Texas and their response is simply that the tribes will have to stay on their reservations to build their casinos. I hate to tell you folks this, but take a look at the map of Oklahoma and the number of casinos in the state. The tribes are off of the reservations and they have won a federal case that allows them to apply a hundred plus year old treaty to their locations. Remember the only winners in the legislation in Kansas was the tribes. The racetracks closed and the tribes did it through the courts.

Again, the only competition we have in state for the gambling dollar is the lottery. We do not need to invite more in our backyard.

Even though the TTA has basically made itself disappear, the vote for the selected board members has a few that are not the typical slots or nothing crowd. Support these folks and call a neighbor to get them to support these folks. There appears to fewer and fewer of us willing to fight for the industry, a little revolution is good for the soul.

cng · Maiden Special Weight Joined: 05 Jul 2008 Posts: 198

cng · Maiden Special Weight Joined: 05 Jul 2008 Posts: 198

jellac · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:02 am Post subject:

cng wrote:

keyranch · Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:00 am Post subject:

Salisaw does not have the population to support the track and it was dependent on traffic from Ft Smith, AR. The facilities had been improved and that track has limped along for many years with the stock it was racing. There were people that were making a living at that track with those kind of horses, it fulfilled a need for the local economy. There are some very good horses and people that got their start at the Blue Ribbon Downs tracks all over the country. Their loss to their communities has a greater impact than a class one in a major city.

The racetracks lost and the racing opportunity lost over the last several years should be a wake up call to the horsemen. Trinity Meadows, Bandera, Blue Ribbon Downs, and The Woodlands in KS are just a few I can think of. There has been one added in New Mexico but it replaced the loss of Raton in New Mexico.

Texas does not have to go down this same path!

jrgators · Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject:

Let me begin by correcting myself. I stated the wrong name of the track, it's blue ribbons down, not will rogers.

KeyRanch and I have disagreed online, on the phone, and in person, but to this point, I'm squarely in agreement with him.

We can't keep on the same path, and expect to be successful. We MuST do some different things. The same old thing isn't going to work for us.

I love Ohio Racing, and began my career at Thistledown. The thought that it is/can go away is so tragic and sad! There are great people there too, and many have been there all of their lives. It doesn't look good, and we are talking about the loss of one track, but the state program can be going away very soon. They have been just hanging on by a thread for years with the hopes of racinos. (Does that sound familiar?) Now they have ZERO!! The site in Cleveland will be about a 20 minute drive from Thistledown! Why would anyone want to drive past this big lovely building that will be the casino on the Lake Front in Cleveland to come to the horse track? THEY WON'T they'll park and take those dollars that could have been helping the horsies and now they'll be helping the casino owners and that's it.

I really fear for all of us in Tx racing right now. I am very seriously thinking of selling all that I have and walking away. The problem for myself is that I LOVE this business, and I've tried so hard for the past 5 years to get back in it, and make a go at it. But it's scary when the folks that I depend on to look out for the best interest of the horsemen and horsewomen of the state seem to be stuck on let's get a slot machine and nothing else, we should be concerned. Deeply concerned. If we have nowhere to run, what difference does everything else make?

We can argue breedback rule, fairs, all of it, but does it really matter if there are no more tracks open in Texas? This may seem today to be far fetched, but several years ago it was a far fetched idea that we'd have pari-mutuel gambling in texas too.

It's not time to panic, but it's time to wake up and see what's out there. Key is right on the fact that once casinos show up, it's a change forever for all of us. If anything happens, and let's say we get legislation for the casinos, excuse me, racinos, what about the horse people, especially us who are breeders. If we can't make any money out of it, and keep quitting the business, there won't be enough horse to go around. Then we have a new problem.

Our tracks are struggling, we are yearly loosing racing dates, our breed org is running low on money, and we are loosing people daily to surrounding states, how much worse do we want to sit around and let it get before we become affected enough to want to do something about it? My problem is that I don't know what to do about any of it. It seems logical to me, but I have little power, I'm just a small breeder with his life savings in his back yard eating hay and grain everyday, but dog gonnit, I should have some HOPE! There doesn't seem to be enough of that left to justify the $1400 a month feed bill!

Anyways....
Theo

keyranch · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:33 am Post subject:

The situation in Texas is still the same as ten years ago, the perception is more dire. On a regional scale there is more money to run at than ten years ago. On a national scate the trends have spread out the horses and opportunity. It is the horses that are unable to compete at those levels or the owners that do not wish to run outside of the state that are in need the most and they are smaller guys that have been the backbone of the industry.

The focus should have been and should be the smaller breeder and trainer operations and how can the Texas bred fund be directed to help these people stay in the game. The fund needs a big infusion of funds and it needs to go back to the basic distribution of funds it had originally before the TTA start redistributing them. Talk about redistribution of wealth, it has been happening here for awhile. The needs of a few board members outweigh the needs of the members, again.

There are some new candidates for the TTA board. Be sure to vote to return some shorttime board members and bring in some new folks to the board. The slots or nothing crowd has got to go away or we will continue to sit in idle for another two years.

tinners way · Maiden Special Weight Joined: 13 Jan 2006 Posts: 188

Slots or nothing will be the death of us. There are a lot of smart horse people and smart business people that have invested in Texas based on the fact that slots "had to happen." Heck, we have had lobbyist get up at regional meetings and tell members (right, the same people that are paying them) to sit down and shut up, because slots will pass or the schools will not open. (and pigs will fly). These same lobbyist's were taking money from both sides.

I view the sale of Lone Star positively. I also view the people that tell you account wagering will never pass and OTB will never expand, as those with too great an interest in slots and not horses.

Any revenue from slots will be short lived for horsemen. I hope that people realize that now. Look no further than PA.if you want proof. Lawmakers have only begun to siphon that. It is time to make Plan B a reality, along with a return to common sense for the TEXAS BRED program. Dollars earned by the presence of the tracks and horses can be protected for the horsemen, slot dollars cannot.

Lone Star officials in the past estimated that account wagering alone would provide for a 50% increase in purses. I for one think that running at 30k plus for MSW would be acceptable, 20-25 at Retama and SHRP. We do not need the greatest purses in the world. We need purses that allow for a profit and the ability for those dollars to be invested in Texas, so we can continue to grow, and improve our product.

Roger · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject:

cng · Maiden Special Weight Joined: 05 Jul 2008 Posts: 198

tinners way · Maiden Special Weight Joined: 13 Jan 2006 Posts: 188

Purse pudding is sweet. And by all means I want that as well. But history shows that nothing is free, and if the government has anything to do with it, it will be free, and you will pay the taxes to support it. (The hoax of it all.) When there is not enough tax base, then the politicians go looking elsewhere. The first place they looked in PA was the slot money going to the horsemen.

Slot money is great, but it is not sustainable. After a short while even those running the racinos look around and ask, "why are we paying all this money to purses when 1) no one is wagering on the product and therefore it is even less self supporting 2) there is no fan base to draw and build upon.

Every state that is watching horsemen taste that pudding, and seeing little or nothing measurable being reinvested back into the state, will have the same issue. Horse racing will ultimately be judged a non-sustaining, welfare entitlement. And the verdict will be it is unsalvageable. I do not want to be one of the ones guilty of doing that. I still believe the product can be viable, but we have to do it based on the product, not someone depositing coins. (You no longer have to pull the "one armed bandit, just simply push a button.)

In those states with slots and racinos, the politicians are drooling over that money. There is nothing keeping the money invested in the state, and that is the whole argument the horse and breeding organizations give, and then for the most part do nothing to show they are serious.

Slots, yes I want them. But not slots or nothing. Under this approach we will always end up nothing. The last 3 legislative sessions should be enough to convince you it is flawed. We need expanded OTB and account wagering. If we get slots, that is a bonus.

jrgators · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject:

Tinner, tinner, well said!!

I hope folks are listening.

Theo

Bedouwia · Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject:

I just got my TTA ballot in the mail -- vote early, so you don't forget. It is time for a change.

Bedouwia

jrgators · Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject:

OK,

All of my smart and knowledgable friends on here, which candiates on the ballots have shown an interest in more than slots or nothing?

I wish to support any and all candidates that are supporting the goals that we have.

I know that tinner makes perfect common sense statements, and hopefully we can find out some of the others who are like minded.

We do have chances here to make a living, but it's getting more and more difficult daily. I really with all of my heart don't want to quit this great sport, but if things don't atleast appear to be able to change, I don't see how most of the people I know can survive.

If anyone has input that can help inform me, and don't wish to publish it, please feel free to give me a call, or send a private message.

Theo
512-303-0337 Home
512-529-3417 Cell

Thanks in advance!