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ElPrado
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 Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Plus, she looks to be a snowcap, which means she has many of the appaloosa gene modifiers and will produce a high likelihood of appaloosa color. Very interesting phenotype.
I do know, I bred appaloosas for a while. |
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Jorge
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Jorge
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Jorge wrote: | Angrovestud,
Almost forgot to mention. Are you aware that there was a cropout Thoroughbred horse who was considered a Tobiano by a world authority I once consulted? The name of this horse was TRI CHROME. Here is his pedigree: http://www.pedigreequery.com/tri+chrome
Actually there is a relatively prolific sire from this lineage but I don’t know about his status (Tobiano? etc.). His name is BLUE EYED STREAKER.
Here is his pedigree: http://www.pedigreequery.com/blue+eyed+streaker |
Dear Angrovestud,
I must provide a full correction on the aforemention error.
I revised my records on the alleged existance of a Tobiano Thoroughbred and found out that the horse I had received information from a world authority stating it was a Tobiano was VALENCAY and not TRI CHROME.
For your benefice, let me me copy "ad-verbatim" the complete quote from my work "History and Development of White Thoroughbreds",
(page 11):
"Thirty-one years before Tri Chrome foaling, the Breed had also witnessed the appearance of another heavily spotted Thoroughbred. The ccase was Valençay (1960), a French-bred paint chestnut son of Free Man (1948, by Norseman), out of La Lorie (1950, by Coastal Traffic), who was auctioned at the Deauville Yearling Sales of 1961. Quite different from the case of Tri Chrome, Valençay's visual appearance showed most of the characteristics of a mutation to the paint-tobiano gene. His white blaze was more commonly marked than that of Tri Chrome's. Most of his white body markings tend to be spread into a toward-the-neck vertical arrangement, with some areas crossing its topline. Three of his four white feet/legs extended their white well above both knees and one of the hocks. In addition, his mane and tail were flaxen. Unfortunately, nothing was ever heard again about this case, for which reason we may deduct that Valençay vanished from the Breed without a trace."
In synthesis, the alleged Tobiano Thoroughbred I was trying to pinpoint was VALENÇAY. (yes, the letter is "Ç" not "C"). Hope this clarification may assist you and erase the error. |
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angrovestud
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Location: North Yorkshire England
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:33 am Post subject: |
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Oh Thank you Jorge I do remember you writing on your web page about Valencay and I remember a post about him on this board I thought you might have meant Valency. Thank you.
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Jorge
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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You are quite welcome.
It is my view that Teddy (2), Neil Gow (2), Son-in-Law, Rabelais, Gallinule, Hyperion and Bend Or are quite responsible for the flamboyant phenotype of VALENCAY (1960). But I have learned to closely monitor Hyperion whenever I come across his name because according to my view, he is the “one-man-gang” of coat color oddities. His presence is always protagonical everywhere! |
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summerhorse
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Sabino and dominant white can mimic tobiano in crossing the back. Tobiano is dominant so one parent would have to be tobiano. If he was tobiano maybe he was "found out" and had his papers pulled? It is impossible to know with a picture though. He was probably just an odd overo.
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angrovestud
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:17 am Post subject: |
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I do think that the presance of splash white almost brings out the dominant white and i also believe that splash changes frame that that perhaps when frame is minimal or none phenotype showing white then thats because splash is not presant. I also think that Tobiano would be very difficult to hide but if one did crop out in the TB in Valencays case maybe from Hyperion he was perhaps a minimal but I think the colour goes back to Selene and Cyllene
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Jorge
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| angrovestud wrote: | | Selene |
I have always seen her with much suspicion but at the same time I have other indicators pinpointing Gainsborough. No contradiction here, for Hyperion was such a source of color oddities in so many ways that most probably he was such a strong force precisely because of both of his immediate parents.
Being able to calmy ponder and browse so many pedigrees of unusually marked Thoroughbreds for many years makes one develop some sort of sixth sense towards detecting common ancestor with a very good rate of "bingo". The only "problem" is that since a pedigree is full of other names one cannot really claim that there is a proven scientific method to prove it. |
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xfactor fan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Dominant White has such a variation of expressions, it's interesting to try to figure them out.
Seems like the presence of other white genes "boost" the expression, and there seems to be some sort of help from the recessive form of Agouti. (Bay) the recessive form is non-agouti or black.
A number of the full DW expression (solid white horses) may carry the a version of the gene. This could be that color breeders are selecting black horses for their breeding program, and has nothing to do with Agouti, but is certaintly seems to show up quite a bit. |
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belambi
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Jorge
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Thasnk you so much Belambi. Wow, would really like to see this baby as a yearling! All His Blessings. |
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Jorge
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angrovestud
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Its an Interesting thread I am so suprised that so many countries have not heard of our NTR or NTB register manybe now word is out the JC will have one to and you will all be able to add the colours you want. lets hope so.
Belambi that little one is so nice well done I keep forgetting its your spring time happy foalingXX
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reedhill
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ElPrado
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| And I'll bet the pedigree on that snowcap foal above has several individuals with the word Mighty in their names, as in Mighty Jim, Mighty Tim, etc. It looks like a Sheldak Ranch line foal. The facial markings are typical of that line. My farm was similarly bred. I had several individuals that were similar. The Mighty Tim line crossed well with the leopard Prince Plaudit line, which they also featured. You then refined the heads a bit, (both lines had fairly heavy heads and necks) by bringing in some descendants of Red Eagle II, who was about 1/4 arab. |
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