Why would a buyer pay $925,000 for this pedigree?

horse

A.P. Indy's son Flatter out of Praise by Mr. Prospector who stands for $7,500 is the sire.

SILENCE PLEASE b. M, 2001 DP = 12-13-7-0-0 (32) DI = 8.14 CD = 1.16 Career Earnings: unraced is the dam

QUIET AMERICAN (USA) dam's sire
b. 1986 FAPPIANO (USA)
b. 1977 [IC] MR. PROSPECTOR (USA)
b. 1970 [BC] RAISE A NATIVE (USA)
ch. 1961 [B] NATIVE DANCER (USA) gr. 1950 [IC]
RAISE YOU (USA) ch. 1946 *
GOLD DIGGER (USA)
b. 1962 NASHUA (USA) b. 1952 [IC]
SEQUENCE (USA) b. 1946
KILLALOE (USA)
b. 1970 DR. FAGER (USA)
b. 1964 [I] ROUGH'N TUMBLE (USA) b. 1948 [BC]
ASPIDISTRA (USA) b. 1954 *
GRAND SPLENDOR (USA)
b. 1962 CORRELATION (USA) b. 1951
CEQUILLO (USA) b. 1956 *

DEMURE (USA) dam's sire's dam
b. 1977 DR. FAGER (USA)
b. 1964 [I] ROUGH'N TUMBLE (USA)
b. 1948 [BC] FREE FOR ALL (USA) br. 1942
ROUSED (USA) b. 1943
ASPIDISTRA (USA)*
b. 1954 BETTER SELF (USA) b. 1945
TILLY ROSE (USA) br. 1948
QUIET CHARM (USA)
b. 1971 NEARCTIC (CAN)
blk/br. 1954 NEARCO (ITY) br. 1935 [BC]
LADY ANGELA (GB) ch. 1944
CEQUILLO (USA)*
b. 1956 PRINCEQUILLO (IRE) b. 1940 [IS]
BOLDNESS (USA) b. 1948

NOTICE ME (USA) The dam's dam
dkb/br. 1982 DISTINCTIVE (USA) The dam's dam's sire
dkb/br. 1966 NEVER BEND (USA)
b. 1960 [BI] NASRULLAH (GB)
b. 1940 [B] NEARCO (ITY) br. 1935 [BC]
MUMTAZ BEGUM (FR) gr. 1932 *
LALUN (USA)*
b. 1952 DJEDDAH (FR) ch. 1945
BE FAITHFUL (USA) br. 1942 *
PRECIOUS LADY (USA)*
b. 1952 REQUESTED (USA)
ch. 1939 QUESTIONNAIRE (USA) b. 1927
FAIR PERDITA (USA) blk/br. 1932
ALBANIA (USA)*
br. 1933 BULL DOG (FR) br. 1927 [B]
CRISTAR (USA) ch. 1927

BLUFFERS SONG (USA) The dam's dam's dam
dkb/br. 1975 BIG BLUFFER (USA)
dkb/br. 1969 BOLD RULER (USA)
br. 1954 [BI] NASRULLAH (GB) b. 1940 [B]
MISS DISCO (USA) b. 1944 *
FOOL'S PLAY (USA)
dkb/br. 1960 TOM FOOL (USA) b. 1949 [IC]
ANTAGONISM (USA) b. 1947
SINGING SAILS (USA)
dkb/br. 1958 SPY SONG (USA)
br. 1943 [B] BALLADIER (USA) blk. 1932
MATA HARI (USA) br. 1931
SAILS (USA)
ch. 1947 PILATE (USA) ch. 1928 [C]
ENSIGNS UP (USA) b. 1937

Sales highlights:

Business picked up during the second and final session of the Ocala Breeders’ Sales Co. March select sale of 2-year-olds in training, with three horses, including a $925,000 Flatter colt, bringing amounts that exceeded the opening session’s top price of $400,000 and another equaling it.

The auction finished March 16 in Central Florida.

Hold Your Peace · Allowance Winner Joined: 24 Nov 2006 Posts: 495

They weren't paying for the pedigree.

They were paying for the individual and the impressive breeze.

Anyone thinking residual value for a son of Flatter would be making a mistake. Even a graded stakes winning son of Flatter is going to have minimal stallion value unless somthing dramatic happens with Flatter's reputation.

So with residual value out of the equation pedigree is a lot less important.

Does seem like a lot to pay when the odds of that horse turning them a profit based on earnings are a real longshot. But the buyer is rich enough that return on investment isn't as much a concern as a chance to be in the winners circle after winning some important races.

So glory is probably a more motivating factor than return on investment. And there had to be at least one other rich glory seeker bidding on the horse for the price to get that high.

Anytime you get these high prices - ego is a major driving force and not common sense.

Des · Allowance Winner Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 433

Because Excellent breeding does not always equal Excellent Athlete or Race Horse... They may be looking for an athlete and this horse may fit such description

madelyn · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:05 pm Post subject:

Actually, in my mind, the question is actually: What would this individual have brought if he'd had a really GOOD pedigree? $2-3 million? More?

Since he went for $925K it's a solid bet that he is physically outstanding and really looks the part. So if he'd been by, say, Street Cry or Empire Maker, out of a great mare, what would his price have been?
_________________
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....

Crystal · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:03 pm Post subject:

2 year old sales are always a throw the book out and look at the horse type sale. Talent can outrun pedigree all day long.

rudydee · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:56 am Post subject:

Let's see if this latest Eisaman speedster can out run history....

CTBAboardwatch

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

March 14, 2011 Now in our sixth year of watching out for you

Perhaps the most prolific consignor of two-year-olds in the country is Dr. Barry Eisaman. Selling under the EISAMAN EQUINE banner his collection of pinhooked yearlings usually exceeds several dozen in the Florida sales.

EISAMAN consignees often record the fastest preview times This year's OBS March sale is no exception; it's FLATTER colt and DIXIE UNION filly each recorded the preview's best times of :20 3/5.

We decided to examine the 'Past Performances' of Eisaman's previous OBS March Sale two-year-olds whose workouts also topped the sale. (US earnings only).

2006 Ylng price 2yo price Starts/wins Earnings

10.0 MARY'S PRAYER $40,000 $90,000 24-4 $62,000

21.1 GOLD MINX 30,000 100,000 5-1 27,000
21.1 CURLY GIRL 37,000 325,000 5-0 20,000

2007

21.0 JET BLACK ROCKET 55,000 180,000 UNR 0

21.0 BLUE FLIGHT 67,000 105,000 2-0 13,000

2008

10.0 BOCA BELLE 520,000 4-0 17,000

10.0 KING PUMA 70,000 375,000 5-2 108,000

10.0 MIGHTY SCORE 60,000 155,000 17-3 96,000

10.0 ALLABOUTCAPITAL 50,000 360,000 6-0 6,000

20.4 BEE CEE CEE 100,000 200,000 19-3 180,000

2009

20.2 JUSTKEEPITSIMPLE 70,000 (45,000) 13-2 34,000

20.2 AIKENITE 60,000 225,000 16-3 379,000

20.3 ROYAL RAVINE 82,000 120,000 1-0 3,000

20.3 BULLS AND BEARS 47,000 135,000 5-1 36,000

20.4 PAPA JIGGS 85,000 140,000 7-0 1,500

20.4 VERY ENTERTAINING 32,000 75,000 UNR 0

TOTALS

Yearling sales price: $765,000

OBS March price: $3,150,000

Starts/wins: 129-19

Earnings: $982,000

CTBAboardwatch is a Grass Roots movement supported by more than 600 horsemen and women who are vitally concerned about California 's struggling Thoroughbred industry. Former CTBA and CHRB chairmen are among us. More than 4,500 industry participants receive this newsletter. We have no membership applications, dues or fees. You're a member if you say you are! Please send all questions and comments to ctbaboardwatch@yahoo.com and we will respond asap. WRITE TO US!

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fastappy · Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:35 pm Post subject:

Baffert was behind this one and of course the infamous 2.7 million Sea of Secrets colt (Diamond Fury) that sold in Barretts Mar 2003, who has subsequently earned $135K (no black type earnings). I believe Sea of Secrets was a $5K stallion at the time. I'm sure Diamond looked to be a "Cannon" as well.

It's hard for me to come to grips with but if you have the that type of money to throw around, eventually you'll hit pay dirt (I guess). Lets not talk about the $600K Swiss Yodeler, "Swissle Stick".
_________________
"He's by Damon Runyon out of a Don Rickles mare," Actor Jack Klugman

Crystal · Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:58 am Post subject:

as long as you're selling horses you can only hope, wish, & pray for so long for someone with bottomless pockets to come around Smile

.. and when they do, no one refuses there money.

bdw0617 · Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:08 pm Post subject:

Heck flashpoint AND big brown were both around 200k which sounds like a bargain considering how good they are, but when you consider that one was by boundary and the other by pomeory both 5k sires, that's a LOT of coin.

IN fact those are the high sale prices type horses I look or in the form, not just high prices but high pries out of not so flatting pedigrees. you see an unforgettable max that costs 200k, that's the type of horse you need to look twice at first time out.
_________________
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
- Einstein

smilton · Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:28 am Post subject:

He was an impressive individual and I know several "less well funded" groups were after him and thought they could get him for less than 200k but when they big guys got involved they were out of luck. With the focus on that guy a couple really nice horses were stolen. Pletcher got a Tiznow that should have brought big money if things hadn't been so distracting. The 400k Smart Strike chestnut colt was a monster. He was over 17h already.

Des · Allowance Winner Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 433

I am quite certain we had some well bred horses that were also sold for top dollars and TANKED .... They all come with that stamp " NO GUARANTEE"

ElPrado · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:51 pm Post subject:

What is this fascination with 17 hand + 2 year olds? God knows what growth hormones they've been given. I wouldn't want an 18.2 hand 3 year year old. The jock would need a ladder to mount, leg up or no.

LB · Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:03 am Post subject:

Since this thread has been brought back up...the Flatter x Silence Please colt, now named Brigand, won his first start on 7/3 at Hollywood Park.

Crystal · Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:25 am Post subject:

congrats to his connections. I hope he becomes well worth his purchase price.

horse · Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:10 am Post subject: