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brogers
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Location: Lexington, Kentucky
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 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject: Heart and Spleen |
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In relation to the X-Factor thread, I got a PM from someone asking about the heart and spleen and why we think that the spleen is just as important as the heart in terms of elite performance.
A major factor contributing to the athletic ability of the horse is exercise induced splenic contraction that augments both circulating blood volume (by about 12 litres) and haemoglobin concentration. In a study by Wagner, et al back in 1995 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0737080607804849) they found that horses that had a splenectomy (removal of the spleen), had a reduction of 31% in VO2Max and 15% in maximal cardiac output.
To put that in layman's terms, if two horses of equal ability were asked to run over 6 furlongs and one had its spleen removed that horse would lose about 30 lengths in performance terms.
Here is a paper that appeared in 1991 that first discussed splenic and heart weight and how they impacted on performance.
http://www.iceep.org/pdf/iceep3/_1130104616_001.pdf
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Byron Rogers
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docjocoy
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:09 am Post subject: |
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The spleen is important to maximun energy output in all mammals, not just horses. In humans, for example, an athlete who contracts mono, a disease that attacks the spleen (amongst other organs), is told to refrain from strenuous exercise until fully recovered in order not to damage the spleen.
Your report makes a lot of sense but the importance of the spleen is not exclusively relevant to horses. |
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brogers
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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You are absolutely right. I merely wonder why there hasn't been as much talk about the spleen when compared to cardio capacity.
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Byron Rogers
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Shammy Davis
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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My opinion is that equine research is like the "flavor of month" if no one is overly interested it is put on the back burner. You would think that, in light of the xfactor conversations not only in the TB industry but also in the QH, Arabian, and Sporthorse arenas, that researchers would pick up on the importance and put more effort into finding answers.
http://www.the-aps.org/press/aps/06/derby.htm |
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aethervox
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Shammy Davis wrote: | | My opinion is that equine research is like the "flavor of month" if no one is overly interested it is put on the back burner. You would think that, in light of the xfactor conversations not only in the TB industry but also in the QH, Arabian, and Sporthorse arenas, that researchers would pick up on the importance and put more effort into finding answers. |
Having worked in academia, I can tell you that unless someone is willing to fund the research, it doesn't get done. That means competing with thousands of other researchers for the money unless someone rich donates money specifically for your project or you're lucky enough to get a MacArthur 'genius' grant. |
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brogers
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Shammy Davis wrote: | My opinion is that equine research is like the "flavor of month" if no one is overly interested it is put on the back burner. You would think that, in light of the xfactor conversations not only in the TB industry but also in the QH, Arabian, and Sporthorse arenas, that researchers would pick up on the importance and put more effort into finding answers.
http://www.the-aps.org/press/aps/06/derby.htm |
Shammy,
We are finding the same although as horses get more and more expensive to put into training, companies like ours that help discriminate the potentially elite from others become more and more valuable.
Interesting that article mentions Ken McKeever. We have some work that we are just starting on that he started on back in 2002 which we think is important. I think it was him (I could be wrong) that said that in a crop of 30,000 horses there should be about 300 that can actually win a Kentucky Derby each year but for whatever reason (sickness, injury, etc), only 20 get to the post and of those less are genetically and physically capable of winning the race against the horses that they face that day.
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Barcaldine
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Shammy Davis
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Athervox wrote: | Quote: | | Having worked in academia, I can tell you that unless someone is willing to fund the research, it doesn't get done. . . |
I agree totally. I was speaking in general terms. What surprises me the most is that the TB racehorse has not significantly increased its racing times in past 1/2 century. I would think that question alone would encourage research and support from the industry.
It is interesting how we are seeing more university settings opening up to equine studies and research. That is very positive. That points to what Brogers suggests that new doors and ideas are opening across the country, not only in academia but in capital markets, that are racehorse related. From the standpoint of knowledge alone, that is very positive.
I wonder if they will discover a "long stride" gene. |
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Bast
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Shammy Davis wrote: | Athervox wrote: | Quote: | | Having worked in academia, I can tell you that unless someone is willing to fund the research, it doesn't get done. . . |
I agree totally. I was speaking in general terms. What surprises me the most is that the TB racehorse has not significantly increased its racing times in past 1/2 century. I would think that question alone would encourage research and support from the industry.
It is interesting how we are seeing more university settings opening up to equine studies and research. That is very positive. That points to what Brogers suggests that new doors and ideas are opening across the country, not only in academia but in capital markets, that are racehorse related. From the standpoint of knowledge alone, that is very positive.
I wonder if they will discover a "long stride" gene. |
Winning times in the Arc and Epsom Derby have continued to drop in the last 20 years.
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Shammy Davis
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:42 am Post subject: |
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Bast wrote: | Quote: | | Winning times in the Arc and Epsom Derby have continued to drop in the last 20 years. |
Good point and true, but I was speaking in terms of the overall TB racing population. I'm sure you remember that in the early 60's human running speeds were breaking records consistently at about every distance. You may also remember that although this was significant at the highest levels, record speed times were also seen at lower amateur levels such as NCAA and scholastic athletics.
At the racetrack, because racehorses win when running in their own or a lesser class don't ordinarily exceed speed/time expectations. MHO is that because "betting" and "purses" play an important role in the game, the trainers are more likely to place horses in company that they can win and keep them there. What this says to me is that my expectation that speed/time increases/decreases in racehorses may not be relevant as far as the racetrack industry is concerned. |
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brogers
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Shammy,
I can't remember where, but there was a paper that described where race times in the thoroughbred for the winning time had peaked in the 1970's and we hadn't got a lot of improvement, but that the average horse had actually gotten better since. Basically there was a lot of difference between "elite" and "sub-elite" horses in terms of time, but that since the 1970's the times that the "sub-elite" horse is running has gotten closer to the elite. From a practical viewpoint you do see allowance and even claiming races over 7f being run in 1:21 and change.
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Shammy Davis
Chef de Race: Classic
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2655236/pdf/ukmss-967.pdf
Brogers wrote: | Quote: | | . . . From a practical viewpoint you do see allowance and even claiming races over 7f being run in 1:21 and change. |
IMO opinion we are seeing this more on the distaff side, but this is just my observation and I have nothing to substantiate it.
Last edited by Shammy Davis on Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Shammy Davis
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vineyridge
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Your average bettor, who keeps horse racing alive, doesn't care about time any more than trainers do. S/he just wants to win. If a horse is in a class below its capabilities, it will win more. A good race, from a spectator's point of view, is a photo finish. Or a great closer like Zenyatta or Buckpasser.
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Shammy Davis
Chef de Race: Classic
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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vineyridge wrote: | Quote: | | Your average bettor, who keeps horse racing alive, doesn't care about time any more than trainers do. S/he just wants to win. If a horse is in a class below its capabilities, it will win more. A good race, from a spectator's point of view, is a photo finish. Or a great closer like Zenyatta or Buckpasser. |
I agree. A competitive race at any level is always a joy to watch and to the bettor or spectator the winning time is inconsequential. Yet, and you know this, workout times often play an important role in handicapping, as well as, developing a training regimen to work toward a particular race or group of races. And then there is HRTV or TVG commentator who say's as the winner crosses the finish well in hand and coasting, "I wonder what that colt would be like if they ever got to the bottom of him." I wonder.
The discussion of racehorse speed is more an intellectual exercise than anything else, but to say that racing times are stagnant is also an interesting commentary on the breed, its conformation, and its overall health. |
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