Inbreeding - how far do you go?

Joltman · Grade III Winner Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 1109

Two questions -

1. How far back do you look at pedigrees. Do you really care much about the 5th, 6th, 7th, generation?

2. With one hypo mating I tried it gets 6S x 6S x 6S x 5D X 6D x 5D
Princequillo. Does it matter? It seems like a pretty good bit, but 3 of the occurences are with Prince John, only 1 with Somethingroyal. I would imaeine there are a lot of people who inbred to that one(!). For what it's worth, there are 2 other sons of Prince Rose in the 7th as well.

Any thoughts?

thx

jm
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louis finochio · Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:29 pm Post subject:

The key to Inbreeding is to have a balance of Ph. & NP sire lnes. Whe you look at those old warriors that started 45-80 starts, they all had prolific numbers of those same sire lines.

Our breed today is from one sire line, that is why we are seeing tons of single digit starts.
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Louis Finochio

Shammy Davis · Chef de Race: Classic Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 4451

Louis, "tons" is a weight measurement. It's about 2000 pounds. "Starts" is a term used to denote the beginning and when written in the plural it means "more than one." NP and PH are your terms that have no scientific connection to any breeding theory and how would JM know what you mean since you, yourself, have no clear definition for either.

JM: I came across this paper sometime ago. Although, it is basically related to AI, many believe that AI poses the biggest problem (or as you ask, too much) when it comes to inbreeding in horses and this paper also addresses the TB. Much of the research currently available on inbreeding is related to specific items such as a particular performance, semen quality, etc.

http://www.nzerf.co.nz/Attachments/Are%20we%20increasing%20the%20risk%20of%20inbreeding%20in%20horses%20with%20artificial%20insemination%20and%20embryo%20transfer.pdf

vineyridge · Grade III Winner Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1134

Nearco has a sex balanced top and bottom double to St. Simon in the 4th and also in the fifth. There's no real telling if that was a consideration with Tesio when he planned the breeding.

The fifth and sixth generations have been called "the engine room" of the pedigree. Certainly massive doubling in those generations was very common in the history of TBs in the 18th and 19th centuries.
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louis finochio · Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject:

Would those great breeders of the past, become FB breeders of the present. I would say no, because all of those NP sire lines, stallions & mares of the past, are not around today in great numbers.
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Louis Finochio

Bast · Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:49 pm Post subject:

Shammy Davis · Chef de Race: Classic Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 4451

JM: Here's previous thread on the King Ranch and their breeding program.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31233

Some of the examples are very interesting.

Pan Zareta

vineyridge · Grade III Winner Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1134

There is a French show jumper and stallion who is 97%+ TB. He has almost 20% Blandford if all the lines are added together, and Blandford was born in 1911 or thereabouts.
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Joltman · Grade III Winner Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 1109

louis finochio · Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:26 am Post subject:

Thats why those trainers or owners who are not pedigree researcher's of stamina late maturing & turf, keep racing their tbs at 6 fur.

A smart pedigree researcher trainer will spot the above & claim that tb & race it where it belongs, while the 1st. trainer will not fit the tbs breeding.
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Louis Finochio

Joltman · Grade III Winner Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 1109

Glad I can agree with you on this Louis - some of the other stuff, maybe not so much.

It might be interesting to see how the old operations that specially bred their runners then raced them themselves compared to those who simply sold for the commercial market, and much of the planning of the breeding effectively lost.

Pan Zareta - how common in your opinion is a 12% or higher rate? Any studies you know of that looked at it statistically?

thx

jm
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