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brogers
Allowance Winner
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 424
Location: Lexington, Kentucky
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 Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: Pletcher & the #1 family |
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Could be pure happenstance, but has anyone else noted how good Pletcher is with horses from the #1 family?
Thunder Moccasin rolled today in the Hutcheson, but he has also had Cowboy Cal, Position Limit, English Channel, Roshani, Sidney's Candy, Pluck, Honey Ryder, Circle of Life, Circular Quay, Tweedside, Adieu, Scat Daddy, Bishop Court Hill, Bluegrass Cat, Fleet Indian, Her Smile, Master Command, More Than Ready, Munnings and Super Saver. These are just his G1 and G2 winners.
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Byron Rogers
Performance Genetics
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Barcaldine
Starters Handicap
Joined: 28 Jun 2011
Posts: 558
Location: KY
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you saying the Pletcher/Family #1 is an A++ nick? |
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Georgerz
Grade II Winner
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 1494
Location: Kent, Washington
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| That's such a ridiculous cheap shot. |
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Barcaldine
Starters Handicap
Joined: 28 Jun 2011
Posts: 558
Location: KY
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you have a purpose here? |
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Shammy Davis
Chef de Race: Classic
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 4451
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Barcaldine barked: | Quote: | | Do you have a purpose here? |
The real question, "Barky," is do you have a purpose here? You are becoming acclaimed (not admired) for "one cheap shot" after another when it comes to Brogers. We've all taken note of your personal adversion and opinions about "nicking tools," but this thread doesn't have anything to do with that and your attacks on him are evidently personal. Brogers has been more than polite by not recipercating in kind. As for me, I learned my manners as a Marine, I'm getting old and cranky, and politeness has never been my strong suit, so I'll take Georgerz' post one better. If you want to be a "jerk," that's okay, but save the rest of us the pain and discomfort of experiencing your "flawed personality." Lay off Brogers unless you have something polite and interesting to say. I'm sure I'm not the only one who will appreciate your restraint. If you feel the urge to be rude or impolite, find yourself a stall (either in a restroom or barn) and confine yourself until the urge subsides.  |
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Barcaldine
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Joined: 28 Jun 2011
Posts: 558
Location: KY
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Grumpy Old Men? |
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Shammy Davis
Chef de Race: Classic
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 4451
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Shammy Davis
Chef de Race: Classic
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 4451
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Brogers: It is interesting that TP would have such great success with Family #1, but my thought is that it is a family with numerous lines, particularly overseas, and TP does have a large barn. Did you make any comparisons with other U. S. or NA trainers? |
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brogers
Allowance Winner
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 424
Location: Lexington, Kentucky
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Shammy
The #1 family is about 13% of all horses bred. I looked at all of Pletcher's G1 and G2 winners and the #1 family is about 22% of these (122 in total) so unless he is getting an inordinate number of horses from the #1 family, he certainly gets the results training them.
I looked at Baffert in the same light and he doesn't do any better or worse than one would expect.
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Byron Rogers
Performance Genetics
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Shammy Davis
Chef de Race: Classic
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 4451
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hate to say this, but it is what I believe. Great horsemen make great horses. I do believe that certain families a more productive and I believe in "breeding back." #1 family is one of those productive families which I certainly don't credit to Lowe. As a working and hunting dog breeder I had great success with "breeding back" and one of the bitches I bred on this program currently holds a very close and significant place in the pedigrees of two of the top working Chesapeake Bay Retrievers lines in North America.
That being said, a great animal is useless without a great training program. |
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Barcaldine
Starters Handicap
Joined: 28 Jun 2011
Posts: 558
Location: KY
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Pletcher & the #1 family |
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| brogers wrote: | | Could be pure happenstance, but has anyone else noted how good Pletcher is with horses from the #1 family? . |
Could be pure happenstance, but has anyone else noted how good Northern Dancer line stallions are with mares from the Mr. Prospector line?
If not, I can sell you that information for $249. |
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zinn21
3rd Year Sire
Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 3306
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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I think it is more coincidence that Todd is having statistically greater success with family one progeny than others. If he can take a bunch of family one 10k claimers and outperform the rest I might reconsider..
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Shammy Davis
Chef de Race: Classic
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 4451
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Agree with Zinn21. I wonder what the cumulative number of racehorses from family #1 that have been graded winners within the last 10 years? I know of no data base that contains that information. |
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Bunty Lawless
Allowance Winner
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 356
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Pletcher & the #1 family |
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| brogers wrote: | Could be pure happenstance, but has anyone else noted how good Pletcher is with horses from the #1 family?
Thunder Moccasin rolled today in the Hutcheson, but he has also had Cowboy Cal, Position Limit, English Channel, Roshani, Sidney's Candy, Pluck, Honey Ryder, Circle of Life, Circular Quay, Tweedside, Adieu, Scat Daddy, Bishop Court Hill, Bluegrass Cat, Fleet Indian, Her Smile, Master Command, More Than Ready, Munnings and Super Saver. These are just his G1 and G2 winners. |
Perhaps it is just the #1 family that is good and Pletcher has caught on? |
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vineyridge
Grade III Winner
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1134
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Would point that family #1 got its number because it really was #1 in the classic races.
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