Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

louis finochio · Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject:

Fed Biz is a NFB, but he has those PH FS & mares in his 5 generation pedigree, that have contributed to the most injuries & breakdowns. They are:

Nijinsky, Nashua, Native Dancer 2 crosses, Nearco, Hail to Reason, BR, Nearctic 2 crosses, ND, Secretariat, RAN, Mr. P., Storm Cat, Gold Digger, Natalma.

These Ph. stallions & mares were not seen in our NFB pedigrees in the past in great numbers. like in the present. Are NFB of the present will inherit unsoundness from those Ph. stallions & mares found inside the curve of unsoundness.
_________________
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

Bast · Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:40 pm Post subject:

louis finochio · Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject:

If you were a pedigree researcher, you would dig deap & see how sound those NFB of the past were. You wont do it, so you will never know.
_________________
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

Bast · Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:01 pm Post subject:

DDT · Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject:

Louis

If your theory as to Fashion Breds and Non-Fashion Breds is correct and their 3 or more inbreedings to Phalaris line stallions and/or mares make them a Fashion Bred and a high risk for fatal breakdowns, and, if Fashion Bred runners outnumber Non-Fashion Bred runners at least 4 or 5 to 1. That superiority in numbers should coincide with the ratio of fatal breakdowns. For 8 fatal breakdowns thus far at Santa Anita, 5 were Non-Fashion Breds and 3 were Fashion Breds, Aqueduct had 10 fatal breakdowns with 7 Fashion Breds and 3 Non-Fashion Breds, a little over a 2:1 ratio. Of the total fatal breakdowns 12 were Fashion Breds 6 were Non-Fashion Breds, a 2:1 ratio. Even on this small sample it is clear that inbreeding to the Phalaris line is not a major factor in fatal breakdowns.

DDT

louis finochio · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:18 am Post subject:

The breed has changed, I have seen this change over the years, as I have seen this Ph. domination coming 30 years ago. John Nehrud saw it coming too, thats why he didnt abandon those NP sire line stallions & mares.
_________________
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

louis finochio · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:35 am Post subject:

THRONE OF POWER (USA) dkb/br. C, 2005 DP = 8-6-24-0-0 (3 Cool

DI = 2.17 CD = 0.58 - 8 Starts, 2 Wins, 0 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $15,617

THRONE OF POWER br. C, 2005
Pulpit---Lakabi, by Nureyev

TOP was a NFB with prolific crosses of Ph. stallions & mares. TOP had 27 crosses of Ph. stallions & 17 crosses of Ph. mares.

TOP had the same Ph. stallions & mares that have contributed to the most injuries & breakdowns, they are:

ND 3 crosses, Never Bend, Native Dancer 2 crosses, Nearco, Nijinsky, Nashua, Buckpasser, Bold Ruler, Secretariat, RAN, Nearctic, Mr. P. Natalma, Gold Digger.

This colt had a fillys head, as his intense crosses of 1 sire line took it's toll on this NFB mating. TOP had small ankles & cannon bones, a frail appearance. TOP was injured after 8 starts.
_________________
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

DDT · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:50 am Post subject:

Louis

One of the reasons you have not seen the “cluster” or great number of Phalaris line sires and dams in the pedigrees of Non-Fashion Breds is because of the way you count every stallion and/or mare in the line of inbred individuals. For example, Animal Kingdom is classified by you as a Fashion Bred because of his inbreeding 4X4 to Lyphard. You count this as 4X4 to Lyphard, 5X5 to Northern Dancer and 5X5 to Goofed. So, by your count he is a Fashion Bred as a runner, however, as a stallion this inbreeding shows up as 5X5 to Lyphard making Animal Kingdom a Non-Fashion Bred. The horse is the same individual as a stallion, his genetic makeup does not change only the positions in the pedigree. Bluegrass Cat by your count is inbred 3X4 to Northern Dancer, 4X5 to Nearctic, 4X5 to Natalma, 3X4 to Secretariat, 4X5 to Bold Ruler, 5X5 to Native Dancer and 5X5 to Buckpasser. He is a Fashion Bred even when the crosses are counted using the correct manner, 3X4 to Northern Dancer, 3X4 to Secretariat, 5X5 to Native Dancer and 5X5 to Buckpasser. As a stallion he is inbred 4X5 to Northern Dancer and 4X5 to Secretariat and becomes a Non-Fashion Bred. If you only count the direct inbreeding in a pedigree you will have many more Non-Fashion Breds that show the “cluster” of Phalaris line stallions and mares. This is part of the reason why there is actually very little difference between Fashion Breds and Non-Fashion Breds.

DDT

Bast · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:18 am Post subject:

Bast · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:29 am Post subject:

Bast · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:32 am Post subject:

louis finochio · Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:49 am Post subject:

CASINO EVIL C, 2003 DP = 6-3-5-0-0 (14) DI = 4.60 CD = 1.07 - 22 Starts, 6 Wins, 5 Places, 3 Shows Career Earnings: $309,906

Owner: Haps Stable
Winnings: 22 Starts: 6 - 5 - 3, $309,906

Right eye removed as a weanling after paddock accident. At 3: Won Round Table S; 3rd Oklahoma Derby. Shattered his medial sesamoid bone in the left front leg during the running of the Ack Ack Handicap (G3) at Churchill Downs on 11/03/07. Casino Evil was euthanized the next evening. RIP

CASINO EVIL b. C, 2003
Salt Lake---Code of Love, by Cryptoclearance

CE was a type 1 FB being inbred 4 X 4 ND---5 X 5 Nearctic---5 X 5 Natalma
CE has prolific crosses of NP stallions & mares, that we dont see in great numbers in those other FB. Thats why CE started 22 times. These NP stallions & mares are:

Grand Splendor=Swynford, Bunty Lawless, Relic, Victoriana, Wavy Navy=Fair Play, Jabneh, Balladier, Blessed Again, Alablue=Peter Pan,
Royal Union, Dedicate=Prince Rose, Aneroid, Broomflight, Broomshot=Ben Brush,

First Fiddle=The Tetrarch, Dr. Fager=Questionnaire, Tom Rolfe=Rabelais, Victoria Park=Teddy, Beau Purple=Sundridge, Djenne=Tourbillon, Mismate=Domino.
_________________
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

DDT · Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:07 am Post subject:

Louis

Casino Evil is a Non-Fashion Bred, his only inbreeding to a Phalaris line stallion or mare is 4X4 to Northern Dancer, not the 3 inbreedings to qualify as a Fashion Bred.

DDT

louis finochio · Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:31 am Post subject:

Your wrong, CE is a FB.
_________________
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

DDT · Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:32 am Post subject:

Louis

I do not want to banter with you about the correct and incorrect method to count inbreedings, right or wrong, all of the sires and dams tracing to Phalaris are not inbred and cannot count as being inbred. When full siblings appear in a pedigree they are not considered inbred, why do you suppose that is correct? Pull up the pedigree of Seattle Slew and you will see that he is inbred 4X4 to Nasrullah. He also has the full sisters Busher and Striking 4X4 but they are not considered to be inbred but their sires and dams are the same and they are considered as inbreding, 5X5 to War Admiral and 5X5 to Baby League.

DDT