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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:40 am 
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How is this gelding going to help anyone's breeding program? Inquiring minds want to know. :roll:
This is about as much use as your pigeon breeding. :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:02 am 
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Here is the complete official record of Sagawing:

http://www.galopp-sport.de/dvrWebApp/ht ... R=10724575

With a rating of 69.5 kg GAG Sagawing is well below stakes-race-class which begins at around 84.0 kg GAG. Sagawing was a consistent runner of 52 races in 7 seasons but not of that class where racing glory can be gained and a breeder's dream aims for. His dam Sagami had a personal best of 68 kg GAG. Her son just managed to beat that marker.

So this is just the class to which @Louis refers when he lists his tons of "sound" US-geldings.

By the way: Sagawing's BMS Greinton is a sire imported from US but disappointed in GER because of his tendency to produce bleeders.

Nevertheless, Sagawing's sire Winged Love did some good during his short time as a sire in GER and is now a leading NH-sire in IRE.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:24 am 
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Location: Alhambra-Calif.
REVERON (USA) dkb/br. C, 2009 DP = 3-5-8-0-0 (16) DI = 3.00 CD = 0.69 - 7 Starts, 3 Wins, 2 Places, 2 Shows Career Earnings: $324,460

Owner: Stipa Racing Stable Inc.
Breeder: Cabotaba Partnership
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 7 Starts: 3 - 2 - 2, $324,460

At 3: Won Gulfstream Park Derby (GP,8.5f); 2nd Florida Derby (G1,GP,9f); 3rd Sam F Davis S.(G3,Tam,8.5f)

updated 31Mar12

REVERON br. C. 2009
Songandaprayer---Carolina Sunrise, by Awesome Again

R is a type 2 FB, being inbred 4 X 4 Exclusive Native---5 X 5 RAN---5 X 5 Mr. P.---5 X 5 Exclusive mare=Peter Pan NP outcross.

R was injured in training, & is out of the Derby.
R has 25 crosses Ph. stallions, 14 crosses Ph. mares
Unbridled & Unbridled's Song are seen in many injured tbs,as they appear in R background.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:39 am 
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Oh look! You found a colt! I'm so proud of you!
Now, if he was worth breeding, it would be useful. He hasn't been exactly a world beater so far.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:46 am 
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http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... n-claimers.

Louis, the last part from this article is interesting


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:00 am 
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http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... n-claimers

This is the correct link that can easily be opened - you know, Ben, since some time our dear Louis has problems in opening links to other author's texts. We should help him as much as possible.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:33 am 
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Parlo, thanks a lot by helping.

Our buisiness is dooiing great, but I am working quite a lot of hours, so running out of freshness and a little tired.

Iam not complaining btw.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:01 pm 
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Sorry, Ben. It was just a "dot" to much at the end of the web-adress given by you.

You have had this problem with another link a short time ago, but will never have again in future after this hint! :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Ben & Parlo: After reading the link, i dont like the claiming rule change. Our tb of the present cant handle coming back to race sooner. There will be more injuries & breakdowns, as our tb of the present are not our old sound warriors of the past.

Those white collar workers want those tbs to come back sooner too have large fields to attract more $ bet on each of those races. The tbs will pay the price of the change.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:43 pm 
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Louis, what brand of bologna do you live on? Oscar Meyer is good.
We have the same breeding as we had 30 years ago. It hasn't changed from the breeding "of the past". You still breed the fast ones to the fast ones and hope it works. You are not breeding pigeons. You have still never bred a horse in your life.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:16 am 
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Your not a pedigree researcher, if you were you would have seen the change. Our tb conformation & soundness has undergone major changes.

Baffert has said that the influence of Storm Cat, thru his sons & daughters has changed the conformation of our breed. If you dont believe Baffert, shame, shame on you.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:31 am 
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FORT HUGHES (USA) ch. C, 2008 DP = 3-0-3-0-0 (6) DI = 3.00 CD = 1.00 - 3 Starts, 2 Wins, 1 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $84,600

Owner: Darley Stable
Breeder: Darley
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 3 Starts: 2 - 1 - 0, $84,600

At 2: 2nd Southampton S. (Pha,6f)
At 3: Won Jimmy Winkfield S. (Aqu,6f)

Foaled April 7, 2008.
Won debut October 10, 2010 at Belmont, 5.5F MSW.
Euthanized after breaking down during a breeze at Belmont, March 13, 2011.

FORT HUGHES ch. C, 2008
Henny Hughes---Forty Greeta, by Roar

FH was a type 1 FB, being inbred 3 X 4 Island Kitty mare=Ph.---4 X 5 ND---5 X 5 RAN

FH had 24 crosses Ph. stallions---16 crosses Ph. mares. FH has the same Ph. stallions that have contributed to the most injuries & breakdowns, inside the curve of unsoundness. They are:

Nearctic, RAN 2 crosses, Secretariat, ND 2 crosses, Mr. P., Storm Cat, Natalma, Gold Digger.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:40 am 
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louis finochio wrote:
Your not a pedigree researcher, if you were you would have seen the change. Our tb conformation & soundness has undergone major changes.

Baffert has said that the influence of Storm Cat, thru his sons & daughters has changed the conformation of our breed. If you dont believe Baffert, shame, shame on you.


Who can possibly claim to be a "pedigree researcher" in 2012 who does not understand anything about basic genetics--and who REFUSES to learn anything about basic genetics???

Shame, shame on you, Louis.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:43 am 
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louis finochio wrote:
Your not a pedigree researcher, if you were you would have seen the change. Our tb conformation & soundness has undergone major changes. ....


Louis can see conformation in a pedigree - did he invent visual pedigrees in 3D? Why then couldn't he differenciate FB / NFB in the pictures shown to him?

This thread was and still is a crazy show. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:28 am 
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Parlo, indeed you are right by the dot.

I bought myself a nice book:Thoroughbred breeding.

Pedigree theories and the science of genetics.

Written by Dr. Mathew Binns and Tony Morris.

I will spend a lot of my spare time reading it.


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