Training for stride power/turnover

Mahubah

I have a question for Madelyn and others who have experience either in training racehorses or working with sporthorses. It evolves from a recent New York Times article analyzing speed in the cheetah compared to the greyhound, an animal of fairly similar build and mass. Both animals use a rotary gallop in which the back functions as a spring while the hind leg reaches far forward. But the cheetah -- at least in the wild -- is much faster. The scientists analyzing the animals' motion noted two significant differences: the cheetahs left their paws in contact with the earth a fraction of a second longer, apparently dissipating shock more efficiently, and they were able to bring their hind legs back into position to launch a stride more rapidly thanks to heavier muscling through the thighs.

Obviously, horses can't do things quite the way cheetahs do since their backs are relatively rigid (a necessity for supporting their much greater mass). But I was curious as to whether training targeting strengthening of the back and the hindquarters, particularly the gaskins, might enable a horse to reposition its hind legs for the next stride a little faster and so let it stride more quickly without sacrificing stride length. Euro-style training over gallops that go up and down with the lay of the land would be one method of working on this, but have any of you any other notions? I was wondering if some of the very basic dressage techniques might work in this regard -- physical therapy for horses?
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"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis

gufman4 · Weanling Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 38

You need to be careful in speeding up the hind end of a horse, if the hind feet breakover too quickly this will not enable the front feet to get out of the way. This is what happens when horses forge ( hinds strike bottoms of fronts ) and over reaching ( hinds strike front feet and or legs ). You can only speed up fronts so much, speed toe shoes ( similar to Natural Balance ) are square toed fronts that are used to speed up the breakover of the fronts and are said to be more kinder to the entire equine digit, tendons and ligaments.

Hope that helped

karenkarenn · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject:

Several things must be considered if you are taking a racing horse to a dressage arena. When we bring them down and start into arena training, they are and will be trained to be more careful, less speed and more rounding of their back, more impulsion of stride at the walk, trot and canter. Departures are different and is retrained. Do not confuse impulsion with speed. There is a huge difference.
NO, I have never used different shoes to stop over reaching. Period in my experience I have never used them. It s all about balance in the dressage world. If a horse is balanced and has a smooth cadence there is no need to have shoes to stop over reaching. If the horse continues to over reach dressage is not for the horse. The judge(s) will look at that stride and give a lesser score.
When a horse is running a race at a track their backs are hollow not round to support the rider and themselves, thus the back doesn't have the power like a horse that has learned to be in collection. In dressage, they are trained to use all four feet, legs, back, shoulders, neck as balanced as possible. They NEVER have just one hoof on the ground, and out of collection, AT THE SAME TIME. Do not confuse a hand gallop with a gallop at track. Very different. All about using different muscle for different things.The main muscle is the Logissimus Dorsi on the back and the Supraspinous Ligament for dressage. Used for balance, impulsion, collection and supporting himself.
The back ( Dorsi) strengthening comes from being collected at all gaits, something that is not done at the track. When you talk track training you need to refer to the Semi Tendinosus muscle that goes from the heal to the back end of quarters, - that gets strengthened through racing training because of the hind end reaching to go faster, but not needed throughout dressage training as much as racing.
Also Cheetah are very very light animals designed for speed, horses are heavier and NOT all horse were designed to go fast. Since you mentioned training I am assuming you mean QH, Arabians, TBs, Paints too. Remember that some Qh have Polysaccharide Storage in their hind end and loose muscle power and many are in racing. In the west now, the AQHA does use QH for some of their dressage shows.
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madelyn · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:36 pm Post subject:

Hill work. Builds and strengthens the back muscles along with the whole back end.
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BenB · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:45 am Post subject:

Hillwork will do the trick

madelyn · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:53 am Post subject:

Sorry I was in a rush and answered quickly. Dressage per se won't help a horse run faster, in my opinion. The kind of work done to prepare a dressage horse (breaking) ie: lunging with surcingle, side reins, etc. to teach the horse to get a bit under himself, balance himself and reach forward would do ANY horse a lot of good. Long backed uphill TB's especially could use some of that - many get so sore backed they have to work with a pony and can only get a rider aboard for a RACE. Since I believe the goal with a race prospect is to maximize stride efficiency, reach, and fitness, everything in a horse's training regime should point to that. If you look at a dressage horse "in frame" and then you look at a racehorse reaching for the wire, well they are completely different. Rather than getting a TB into "frame" I would spend the time on hill work and swimming. JMO
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So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....

Mahubah · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:26 pm Post subject:

That sounds reasonable. Mostly, I was thinking of work to strengthen the back and gaskins, not trying to teach the collected gaits (sort of the opposite of what a racehorse is asked to do, after all!). Just as something of a parallel, my daughter's cross country coach is having his runners do some core training and calisthenics in addition to endurance work up a hill as part of their conditioning; he's not trying to get them set up for serious weight lifting, just give them a bit more more power and balance. Granted, horses aren't humans, but it does seem like back injuries nag a lot of them, and they're blamed hard to diagnose too until they get to the sore-backed state you mentioned -- maybe the right conditioning would be good preventive medicine.
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"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis

karenkarenn · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:31 am Post subject:

Problem with hill work is that it doesn't do alot of anything on the horse shoulders. Many current racehorses are throwing their weight onto their front end instead of their hind end. `You need to work the front end just as much as the hind end that is why there is alot of trotting at the track to get ready for the extension of the stride.
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May the horse be with you!