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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:54 pm 
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Madelyn,

Love Cryptoclearance, hope that Eight To TheBar makes another stakes winner for him. I just love Fappiano stallions, wish there had been more of them. You'r gonna have to help me find a name for my next foal, you seem to have a knack for cool names.


madelyn wrote:
TJ wrote:
madelyn wrote:
Interesting. I have dreamt of taking my mare, Express to Boston, to Stormy Atlantic.. maybe after her Cryptoclearance colt wins some big stakes.


Hi Madelyn,
All the best getting one of the last of the Cryptoclearance colt's to the races....here's hoping he makes his way to the top and your dream comes true. TJ


THANKS! He is a really big boy, taking after his huge honkin' dam (who is 17.1 barefoot and trimmed and built like a brick s***house). I named him "Eight to the Bar" - he's a fast son of a gun once he gets rolling. He's been a bit of a challenge to train, hard headed like his dam. But sweet in his own way... I wanted to call him "Final Clearance" but it was taken. He's had what his dam never had, encouragement and discipline from foal-hood. She was dumped in a field as a yearling and not messed with after that until she was three. To this day, she can lock her knees, raise her head, and just DEFY you. Not mean, just immovable.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:38 am 
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Tappiano wrote:
I'm quite perplexed because even those who just marginally "get it" would surely see the value of RF IF perhaps there were something other than a LOOK HOW GOOD THIS IS. If someone can step forward and show, let's say TWO out of SIX (that's still less than 50%) examples of RF where the position in the pedigree does not matter but the half siblings do, you'd probably be eligible for the nobel prize of thoroughbreds. That is rather simplified because thus far NOBODY is willing to say if there is in fact a real benchmark so let THIS thread be the driver to offer up ALL examples and let the reader decide.


Hi Tappiano,
The position of the siblings in the 5 generation pedigree (which creates the RF within that pedigree) doesn't matter. It is simply the prerequisite necessary that creates the Rasmussen Factor in a pedigree. These are the guidelines set forth for a RF to be present in a pedigree, as described, researched and explained by the creator of the RF...Leon Rasmussen many years ago. This is not to say you couldn't step forward and do your own research to try to find a correlation between RF position within a RF pedigree and their performance on the track. Which could be your own theory in the making to see if it has merit. There are many who believe RF has no merit at all. I mentioned to you before, this isn't a thread to promote or prove the RF, it's just something of interest that evolved through the original post on Pining. TJ


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:32 am 
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It was given as the ONLY reason to keep the mare reproducing. That is why I asked about the statistics to support that opinion and findings. Chances are it's statistically insignificant in which case there should be some other parameter, perhaps down to the position in the pedigree to support the opinion.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:17 pm 
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http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/scot/arc ... actor.aspx

Lovely article on Rassmussen Factor in Rachel Alexandra :D

Boy, it sure looks like Rasmussen Factor is a good thing to have in a breeding :?

Or not :P


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:40 pm 
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http://ddink55.wordpress.com/2011/09/27 ... en-factor/
http://ddink55.wordpress.com/2012/09/08 ... 2003-2007/

Here's a couple of links with tons of RASMUSSEN FACTOR info.

Enjoy! :D


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:03 pm 
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Tappiano wrote:
It was given as the ONLY reason to keep the mare reproducing. That is why I asked about the statistics to support that opinion and findings. Chances are it's statistically insignificant in which case there should be some other parameter, perhaps down to the position in the pedigree to support the opinion.


Hi Tappiano,
Oh, sorry T...I misunderstood you.....I thought Pining was all ready sold:>) In my opinion, I don't find any RF factor breeding to be "statistically insignificant" but that's just my opinion through personal experience and hands on owning and training of RF horses. I've found certain RF mares to be less significant in a RF pedigree than other's, but in most cases I have found, horses who have the RF in their pedigree turn out to be significantly better horses than those without it.
I posted my opinion of Pining and the dilemma wgc517 found himself in with her much earlier in this thread, as this:
Pining has very interesting breeding considering she carries two Rasmussen Factor's within her 5 generation pedigree to Cosmah (4x4 through Halo and La Dame Du Lac) and Almahmoud (5x5 through Cosmah and Natalma)...that is pretty amazing to find wrapped up in one pedigree. If you are a small breeder, breeding to race, she could produce an interesting foal when properly bred to perpetuate the RF to Cosmah (which also appears in Ashado's pedigree). The Almahmoud RF would be lost since it would be 6th generation in Pining's foals....but that could still be quite telling, since Almahmoud appears 3 times in her 5th gen and actually quite close up considering it's 2012:>) On the other hand, if you are breeding to sell, due to her poor produce record and the fact she is not in foal she must be culled. I feel Pining was an opportunity missed because no one tried to reproduce the RF to Cosmah in any of her foals. That being said, no I don't want to buy her...but the strength of the Rasmussen Factor is potent, just ask John Nerud who was a believer. TJ[i][/i]
I do believe Pining would still have the possibility of producing a decent foal if they tried to bring out the RF to Cosmah when she was bred....since I'm not in the business of breeding anymore, I have no reason to search out the Cosmah RF in other foals to prove its worth. Yet, since you are in need of statistics, let's use the mare Goulash....a very solid producer, who had 10 foals according to PQ. Of those foals, 2 were unraced (Sweet Mariage and Turbulent Storm) and showed no RF in their pedigree. Four more of her foals got to the races all winner's, but of this group only one was stakes placed in two low level stakes races. This group also showed no RF in their pedigree (Blind Hero earner of $56,000, Drover Earner of $76,770, Lauburu earner of $38,300, and Storm Creek Rising earner of $164,712). Of the 4 remaining foals, who all became Stakes winner's or Stakes placed horses all had the RF to Cosmah and Almahmoud within their pedigree...if that ring's a bell it should....it's the same two mares who created Pining's RF's within her pedigree. These last 4 RF foals were Ashado (3 and 4YO Filly Champion and earner of $3,931,440), Sunriver (GR I winner on dirt and turf, 2nd in the Man O' War, 3rd in the Belmont Stakes earned $816,000), Ballado's Halo (3 time winner, placed in two minor stakes races, earned $80,800...currently a fair broodmare), Saint Stephen (GR III winner of 7 races and $313,000).
Of course this is just one example and it still may mean nothing....but I think it makes a possible argument that the Cosmah RF within a pedigree isn't "statistically insignificant" and cries out for Pining to get to a sire that would create the RF to Cosmah....and I think she is an opportunity lost for that reason. TJ


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:23 pm 
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Thanks for the detailed response . Yes, the mare is either for sale or maybe the mare was sold. I did say that I believe IN RF but that should not be the sole reason for keeping a mare in the breeding pool when the pedigree page is void of any decent (allowance or better race class) runners and the existing foals were lackluster.

Anything that has value to YOU is great for you and I was not trying to minimize that at all. If the stallions that Goulash was bred to were vastly different physicals I'd certainly use that in addition to RF in trying to see whether that was a factor.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:41 pm 
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Tappiano wrote:
Thanks for the detailed response . Yes, the mare is either for sale or maybe the mare was sold. I did say that I believe IN RF but that should not be the sole reason for keeping a mare in the breeding pool when the pedigree page is void of any decent (allowance or better race class) runners and the existing foals were lackluster.

Anything that has value to YOU is great for you and I was not trying to minimize that at all. If the stallions that Goulash was bred to were vastly different physicals I'd certainly use that in addition to RF in trying to see whether that was a factor.

Hi Tappiano,
You're welcome...truth is Pining has 3 foals (all non RF babies), two have yet to race and one of those is in Peru. The foal that went to Peru may very well be a good horse...although that foal doesn't possess the RF she is a product of two RF parents. If Pining gets a chance to be bred to a sire who could create a RF to Cosmah, possibly the results will be different. As it seemed to be in Goulash's case. She had 100% stakes placed or stakes winner's when the RF appeared in her babies foals. Only 14% stakes placed (1 out of 6) in her non RF babies.
Of course Pining is no Goulash...but such similarities give hope to a small breed to race outfit.
I took no offense to anything you said during our conversation, I enjoyed it. Well that may not be entirely true....because now that you made me look that up, I may have to get into breeding again...and I really don't want to....no patience:>) Though the hope and the possibilities are far more exciting bringing them up then they are claiming, buying privately or out of a sale. TJ


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:19 pm 
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Patience? Hmmm.... let's see. For me it was 25 years from the first time the "thought" invaded my brain and took up residence until I set my eyes on something that was mine :D .


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Pining is a very nicely bred mare, I'm inclined to believe someone will be interested in giving her another chance, and havimg faith that the foals she has had who have not yet made it to the track will do well. I'm sure you feel the same way about your mare Tappiano, even though she's not a stakes winner and as yet has no foals that have done well at the track, you certainly are full of faith and hope for her.

The RF to Blue Hen female lines makes Pining very interesting to some of us on this thread,
This thread about Pining is 10 pages long, I think a mare that generates this much interest, kinda like a picture that paints a thousand words. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:20 pm 
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Rather than edit my post I could find no evidence that my mare's had offspring that are on the track, JEFF. Playing within the guidelines of this board I am allowed to offer up an opinion that says you, Jeff, behave just like a troll. Now, if you really want to engage in a debate on the merits of a mare that you seem rather infatuated with, the least you can do is to go get your facts straight before you cast aspersions.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:53 pm 
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I confess, Pining at least pedigree wise, appears to be as nice a mare as any that I have ever owned, I like her, like her a lot, sorry that bothers you so much Tappiano. :(


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:31 am 
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Anybody know of RF for Best In Show, 2nd dam of El Gran Senor? .That's a high class family, would be interestimg to know if RF has been utilized.

Jeff


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:13 am 
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http://www.pedigreequery.com/canadian+charm2

Found one, 5X5 Stolen Hour, and 4X Best In Show and 4X her full sister
Reckless Driver.

Also 3X3 Mr. Prospector.

I like the look of the sire; Sought After, has kind of a unique look to him in the photo.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:39 am 
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http://www.pedigreequery.com/salty+strike

Looks like Cosmah line is still thriving in the popping out the graded stakes winners department. Same family as Pining :D


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