Kimberly mine,
Thank You for stating your position. My first witness: Sunday Silence
http://www.pedigreequery.com/sunday+silence
Earnings: $4,968,554 #1 SIRE IN THE WORLD
Note his 2nd dam Mountain Flower, unimpressive race record, $2,378, not bad for 1964, but not steller, his 3rd dam Eedelweiss, unraced, his 4th dam Dowager; nothing much there either.
Had your logic been used on Mountain Flower, the graded stakes winner Wishing Well; dam of the greatest sire the world has ever known; SUNDAY SILENCE would never have been born.
Every thoroughbred has the potential, with the right alignment of genetics, to produce an exceptional runner. (Edited to add, if you don't believe this, then you have no business whatsoever breeding thoroughbred horses whether a black type family or not, if you don't believe there is the possibility that you could get a foal who is a good runner, then you are faithless and have no business breeding race horses.)IMHO
I firmly believe that Pining possess the genetic strength to produce a superior runner and is no cull.
We all know, by and large, TB's eventually get murdered, sent to slaughter, the minority are rehomed. I recall when I used to own Double Dial, the 1/2 sister to multiple G-1 winner John Henry, when I rescued her 1/2 starved in her 20's and made sure she had a home for life. So much for black type snobs having more consideration for black type mares. Black type mares EQUALLY with non-black type mares get DUMPED, just some sooner than others.
Those who deal exclusively in black type mares, the rich and famous; I guarantee you, they do not frequent this board, what happens all to often here, is people seem to feel the best way to make their horse seem more valuable to them, is to bash everybody else's horse. The easiest way to make your horse look good, is to try and make everybody else's horse look bad. The rich and famous, the elite are to kind and gracious to come on this board and rub black type in our face, they just go to a sale and spend a few hundred thousand and then take him to the track and win a few hundred thousand more or not. All the WANNABEES here trying to convince somebody else to cull their mares just shows who they really are.
and what they'r really not.
Jeff
kimberley mine wrote:Jeff wrote:
No RF, but still tail female to Cosmah, looks like the female family went into decline for a couple generations after Cosmah and then began an ascent.
Pining's female family looks to have gone into a bit of a decline after Cosmah also, but if one stirrup of the family can make a comeback, so can another. A stallion like Smart Strike a big boost for the female family.
Pining's 1/2 siblings by Halo line stallions More Than Ready, Saint Ballado, and Southern Halo had some ability, especially the Southern Halo, looks like they were the inspiration to go with a Halo broodmare sire in her dam's breeding to Pine Bluff. What goes up must come down, but a Blue Hen female family can't be kept down. They do rebound.
Jeff
Yes, but....
More than Ready and Smart Strike are elite-level stallions. Saint Ballado was an elite-level stallion. Southern Halo was an elite-level stallion in Argentina, where the broodmare population is slightly different than North America. Yet even with objectively GOOD stallions like More Than Ready and Southern Halo and Saint Ballado, the best True Love could do was a MSW winner who competed well enough at allowance level to stay there a while, but could never get past the first condition, and a horse who was exported to Europe, banished back to NA after only a few starts, picked up a maiden special at Woodbine and dropped way down the ladder until finishing his career in the wrecking yard of Mountaineer.
Pining herself won, but wasn't getting money often enough to keep in training. Her foals are not by elite-level stallions, so they won't be getting the kind of help that Lake Huron (dam of Salty Strike) did with Smart Strike, Cozzene, and Include.
You only can inherit what your parents give you (aka you can't get a grey from a chestnut and a bay). If racing talent wanes across four-five generations, as has happened with this branch of the Almahmoud family, then statistically, the most likely answer is that the mares do not have that talent to pass on. Not "it's buried," not "it will come back," but, it's not THERE. It can be regained over several generations....Lake Huron being a good example...BUT that requires being bred to stallions who are passing on racing ability above and beyond what the mares bring to the table, AND it requires going to those stallions consistently to make up for what a mare herself lacks, AND it requires brutal culling from the broodmare band of the mares who are not producing.
In a sense, that is what Patchen Wilkes is trying to do with their family of white horses. Patchen Beauty was the best racehorse of her siblings, and she has been bred to ham and eggs racehorse stallions in order to get competitive runners. Are they likely to get a stakes winner out of this family? At the moment, unlikely. Are they getting winners? Yes. Presumably they're having fun, too.
That said, OP has stated that he is trying to run this as a business, in which case the mare did not get in foal, has only gotten in foal every other year, and despite her bloodlines, her actual race record, the race record of her foals, and the racing and production of her immediate relatives is not commercially attractive. Potential RF or not, potential genetic gold or not, purely as a BUSINESS consideration he would be better off putting her under saddle for 30 days and then finding her a riding home, than spending money on board, farrier care, vet care, and stud fees for another year--and then either claiming a nice young filly off the track or buying a nicer mare in foal with the stud fee paid at the November sales.[/quo