El Prado mare what should I breed her to?

[Keith]

I have an El Prado mare named Lady Wrong Song and I was wondering what would be a good cross for her. She is out of A Jeblar mare named Wrong Song who was a half sister to a horse who ran second in The Tropical Park Derby. She did not do much racing but I am taking a chance on her? She is going to have a foal this coming year by a Crafty Prospector stud named Tri Line.

[Pete]

Hi Keith,

It would help to know what your intentions are for the foal as well as your stallion budget and even where you're going to have the foal (NH, NY, etc).

El Prado is a successful sire and though Lady Wrong Song has a poor race record, she was probably run over her head her entire career.

El Prado differs from other sons of Sadler's Wells because he was a precocious sprinter (champion at 2 in Ireland). Not much information on what works with his daughters yet.

Sons of Crafty Prospector aren't very commercial, but the sire line may be a good one to use (Mr. Prospector).

Regards,

Pete

[Keith]

Hi Pete

There is a stallion here in Maine named Keen Falcon who won the Coronation Futurity and set two track records. He is by Imperial Falcon and out of Fun on Stage who is by Stage Door Johnny. Keen Falcon stands for $500. He has only been to warmbloods and Quarter Horses for the most part. There are several stallions that I do like which include Silic who won the Breeders Cup Mile and is out of a Sadler's Wells mare and stands for $3500. I like Bop who is by Rahy and out of a Fappiano mare and second dam is by Northern Dancer and stands for $2500. I also like Forbidden Apple who stands for $5000. I think these stallions are very reasonable. I want to line breed on Northern Dancer and Keen Falcon is a good running grandson of Northern Dancer at a price I can afford but I am not sure he is around. I do not know how Caps and Bells would line breed and you see her in pedigrees through Drone, Sir Winborne, and Notebook. I would also like to line breed on Special the dam of Nureyev and second dam of Sadler's Wells. I also do not know how Sweet Tooth would line breed. I would also like to line breed on Striking and Bold Ruler or maybe even Sir Ivor.

[llbean]

Hi Keith,

I like your ideas about Drone and Nureyev; the other really key strain would be Lear Fan. Lear Fan ties together the dam and sireside of mare since a full sister of his dam (Wac) named Bel Sheba bred to Alydar got 2-time HOY Alysheba and a Lear Fan mare bred to El Prado got BC Turf fave Kitten's Joy. A shame he was just pensioned, the stud fee was probably out of your range but maybe a foal share or something could have been worked out with Kitten's Joy doing so well.

Lear Spear traces to Chelandry like your mare but he's at stud in Ireland.

Another stallion who would tie both sides together would be Storm Bird; his dam South Ocean successfully bringing together Special's ancestor Flares (4th gen.) with Sweet Tooth's ancestor (3x3) Bull Lea.

Lady Wrong Song has Tom Fool and Bold Ruler in the 4th generation, and that makes me think Gone West, who crosses those two in his dam and loves having them returned. Also note Gone West got Grand Slam from Alydar's Real Delight female line and a son of Gone West bred to a granddaughter of Alydar got dual Chilean GI winner We Can Seek.

Gone West bred to Lear Fan's Canadian Champion daughter Windsharp got BC Turf dead-heat winner Johar. Johar bred to your mare would be 3x4 Sir Ivor / Yes Sir; who are both by Sir Gaylord and out mares supplying Mahmoud and either Bull Dog or his brother Sir Gallahad.

Johar is a good looking horse who showed some a very impressive kick racing and he's from a very fashionable sireline; his dam produced another GI winner by Storm Cat (Dessert) and sold for something like $6.4 Million to Shiek Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum.

The Mill Ridge site gives Johar's fee as 20,000; I think they may have had some kind of arrangement going that was off the beaten track though.

-llbean

[doublete]

Keith-
I'm from Maine as well. I'm pretty sure Keen Falcon was dispersed but I could be wrong. He was in Skowhegan at the Travers' place, but I dont know now. That was years ago. He's not been bred to much in terms of racing, actually I dont think he has any racing. Maybe a good idea for yourself, but commercially would not fly.

As for the foal she's going to have by Tri Line. I have a coming 3 y/o by Tri Line... They mature a little slow I think, at least mine is, but he's built like a brick house and very correct.
_________________
Racing and retraining.

[Keith]

llbean

Millennium Wind would be an interesting cross being out of Charismatics dam who is by Drone and has What a Pleasure and Polynesian on the bottom side along with Grass Shack 3rd dam of Deputy Minister and of course the immortal Grey Flight the dam of What a Pleasure and Somethingroyal the dam of Secretariat and Sir Gaylord. I also like Grindstone who is by Unbridled and out of a Drone mare. Speaking of Gone West I have looked at Gone For Real who stands in New York and is out of a Drone mare and he has been breed to very few mares. I have also thought about Private Interview out of New Jersey who is by Nureyev and out of a Stop the Music mare and second dam is by Dunce who is a full brother to Cap and Bells. I want breed to something that includes Mr. Prospector and Northern Dancer. I think Nureyev and Mr. Prospector along with Secretariat would cross well. I think Dunce and Drone are options for me to line breed on. I really think Numerous would cross really well with El Prado mares being by Mr. Prospector out of Number by Nijinksy II and the second dam of Numerous is Special. On the other hand Numerous mares would probably cross well with El Prado. El Prado already crosses really well with Raise a Native line horses. Borrego is out of a Strike the Gold mare. Artie Schiller is out of a Majestic Light mare. Timo is out of a Criminal Type mare. Chindi is out of an Alydar mare and Julies prize is out of a Miswaki mare. He crosses well with Roberto line mares also. Senor Swinger is out of a Kris S. mare and of course Kittens Joy being out of a Lear Fan mare. I have really thought about breeding to Storm of Angels who is by Storm Cat and out of a Deputy Minister mare and the second dam is by Halo and 3rd dam is by Buckpasser. The only thing he has not thrown much and he doesn't have any Mr. Prospector.

Keith

[llbean]

Keith,

I think you're right about Raise A Native and El Prado, and Private Interview is very interesting on paper if you think he's good enough a stallion.

But if you can afford Grindstone at what his fee will be next year; I think you could afford Johar. A lot of upside with that colt and I really think Lear Fan is a key to El Prado.

Besides having a sire (Roberto) who is a crazy good cross with Sir Ivor; Lear Fan's dam is perfect with El Prado.

Sadler's Wells sired his best North American son (El Prado) from a Sir Ivor mare; the best sire son so far period by Sadler's full brother Fairy King is Encosta De Lago, a hot young sire down under, and he has Sir Ivor as his 3rd damsire. And finally their 3/4 brother Nureyev's best maternal grandson at stud by far is leading New Zealand/Austalia sire Zabeel, who was by Sir Ivor's son Sir Tristram.

This is important to Lear Fan and El Prado because Lear Fan's dam Wac spookily foreshadowed the success of this international sire successes producing nick.

Wac's sire Lt. Stevens was a full brother of the great broodmare Thong, the 3rd dam of Sadler's Wells and Fairy King and the 2nd dam of Nureyev.

And Wac's dam Belthazer is bred on the reverse Pharamond/Man O' War cross which produced Athenia, the 2nd dam of Sir Ivor.

The success of Johar's dam Windsharp (2nd damsire Sir Gaylord) as a runner and producer indicates a more general affinity between Lear Fan and Sir Gaylord, even when it doesn't come through Sir Ivor, whose 3rd dam was related to Lear's 2nd.

In Windsharp the Sir Gaylord also comes in the context of Mahmoud (like Sir Ivor and his daughter Lady Capulet) and thus Lady Capulet and Yes Sir both represent the combining of Sir Gaylord with Mahmoud; and both of them have crossed good with Lear Fan. This indicates a general affinity between Lear Fan and the Sir Gaylord / Mahmoud cross that you would be reinforcing if you bred Lady Wrong Song to Johar.

The other two sources of Turn-To are Hail To Reason's sons Bold Reason and Roberto, note that one is out of a granddaughter of Nasrullah and the other is out of Lalun, who threw her best foal/Champion racehorse and very important stallion Never Bend to the cover of Nasrullah.

Combining Roberto and Bold Reason has worked in the GI winners Playful Act (3/3); Diktat (3/4); Sumati (3/4); Heir Apparent (3/4); So Casual (3/3); and the G2 winners Kool Kat Katie (3/3) and Baptize (2/3).

Note that so many of the GI and G2 winners got their Bold Reason from Sadler's Wells or his full brother Fairy King, and that the New Zealand Derby (GI) winner So Casual got his Roberto from Lear Fan.

-llbean

[Pete]

Hi Keith,

You haven't spoken about her physically but you might want to consider a stalliuon named OMMADON.

Regards,

Pete

[llbean]

Arch might also be interesting, El Prado on a Kris S. mare got Senor Swinger and Alydar and Never Bend (good for Sadler's Wells) are on the damline.

[Pete]

Hi Keith,

You haven't spoken about her physically but you might want to consider a stalliuon named OMMADON.

Regards,

Pete

[Pete]

Hi Bean,

Seems I posted twice about Ommadon. I like him but that's silly (pardons).

Arch is a solid choice, especially commercially. He's really coming into his own now with some quality runners and he sold 23 yearlings at Keeneland for an average of $64k (his commercial appeal was restored after a weak year).

His fee rose from $5,000 to $7,500 this year, a modest raise after the solid Keeneland performance.

I like the blood choice of doubling Alydar and Hail To Reason, somewhat less so Northern Dancer (but Danzig's a good choice to tie him on).

It may be difficult to get into Arch. He's been heavily subscribed already and his book may already be full.

Regards,

Pete

[Pete]

Hi Keith,

You haven't spoken about her physically but you might want to consider a stalliuon named OMMADON.

Regards,

Pete

[Keith]

Pete,

Not only can he run he is well bred. He has that cross of Sir Gaylord and Secretariat. Weekend Surprise has that same cross and may arguably be the greatest broodmare of the last quarter of a century next to Somethingroyal spreading her genes through A.P. Indy, Summer Squall, Honor Grades, and it would be interesting if she keeps it going through her daughters Weekend in Seattle and Welcome Surprise. Secretariat daughters Weekend Surprise, Secrettame, and Terlingua sure have influenced the breed through their sons A.P. Indy, Gone West , and Storm Cat. Johar is a fraction of the price of Gone West, Elusive Quality, Smarty Jones, and Came Home. Personally I think Elusive Quality is overpriced. Granite he is the leading sire thanks to a $5,000,000 bonus and has sired the great Smarty Jones but you also remember when Our Emblems stud fee rose dramatically due to War Emblem and Private Emblem but now look how his stud fee is coming down. I think El Prado is very underrated and many people credited Medaglio D'oro for carrying him to leading sire status but what about now he has many foals that can run like Kittens Joy, Artie Schiller, Pro Prado, Borrego, Timo, Senor Swinger, Nite Dreamer, and the list goes on and he just gets to $100,000 and he has been on the sires list ahead of greats like A. P. Indy and Storm Cat. I like Elusive Quality and granite he did not get the quality of mares his first couple of years but you have got to admit he is not worth $100,000 stud fee. For the price I could not pass up on my El Prado mare. I know her race record is weak and her dam did not produce anything out of her two foals but my mares dam raced well and is a half sister to Manhattans Woody who was second in the Tropical Park Derby and What a Pleasure S.
He was by Diplomat Way and line bred Nasarullah 3 x 4 and she was also a half sister to The Sunday Man who was third in the City of Miami S. He was by Screen King. Medaglia Doro's second dam is by Silent Screen. I think something with Silent Screen or Prince John may breed well with El Prado. Speaking of Northern Dancer Kitten's Joy is 3 x 5 Northern Dancer through Sadler's Wells and Franfreluche. Kittens Joy is also line bred Hail to Reason 4 x 5 through Bold Reason out of the great Lalun and of course Roberto the sire of Lear Fan. He is also 4 x 5 Tom Fool through Cap and Bells and Buckpasser. Borrego is 4 x 4 Raise a Native though Raise a Cup and Strike the Gold the broodmare sire of Borrego. Artie Schiller is 5 x 5 Native Dancer through Raise a Native and Natalma. He is also 5x 5 Nearco through Nearctic and Nasrullah. Speaking of Northern Dancer again Pro Prado is 3 x 5 Northern Dancer through Danzig and Sadlers Wells. Nite Dreamer is 5 x 5 Turn-to through First Landing and Sir Gaylord.
Interstingly it seems El Prado crosses well with Great Above. Of course you like to see Aspidistra the second dam of Great Above in any pedigree. Senor Swinger is 4 X 5 Hail to Reason and 5x5x6 Turn To. Getting back to Johar he should be an awesome sire but you just never know. I like Johar much better than Grindstone. Birdstone is awesome but he is one of Grindstone's few great runners. Dear Birdie is just an awesome mare and she also produced Kentucky Oaks winner Bird Town. Dear Birdie could join the great list of great broodmares and time will tell.
To me she is a great broodmare because she has not been bred to the elite sires like Personal Ensign has been bred to but Personal Ensign is an all time great broodmare. I could go on and on about breeding.

Keith

[mini's mom]

Hi keith

There is a keen flacoln listed on the internet - the e mailis xwinds@kynd.com - the info listed is not very current - he is a nice looking quarter horse type tb - their tel no is 207-474-5829 - there is a pure tb filly of his for sale - (2000) pic

good luck
nice mare - I have a horse related to weekend surprise - she is a witch sometimes

all I am going to say

susan