Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

louis finochio · Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:57 pm Post subject:

Thanks for posting that link Bill. I hate to see the end of an era of those NP outcrosses. In MB time frame there was no 23--29 crosses of Ph. stallions & 14 crosses of Ph. mares in the same 5 generation pedigree.

Many of those NP sire lines are still seen in those Euro pedigrees of stamina. All the Best, Louis.
_________________
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

louis finochio · Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:17 am Post subject:

BUD AND BRANDY (USA) dkb/br. F, 2008 DP = 4-1-7-0-0 (12) DI = 2.43 CD = 0.75 - 7 Starts, M Wins, 2 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $21,406

Owner: Jerry Engelauf
Breeder: Marjorie & Jerry Engelauf
State Bred: CA
Winnings: 7 Starts: M - 2 - 0, $21,406

Foaled March 5, 2008
Sadly Broke down during Race 1 at Hollywood Park on 4/28/2012 & was vanned off.

BUD AND BRANDY br. F, 2008
Tizbud---Cactus Brandy, by Cactus Creole

BAB was a type 1 FB, being inbred 4 X 4 Mr. P.---5 X 5 RAN---5 X 5 Gold Digger mare---5 X 5 X 5 ND---5 X 5 Buckpasser.

BAB had 20 crosses Ph. stallions & 16 crosses Ph. mares.
This type 1 FB mating shows inbreeding to all PH. individuals, a high risk for unsoundness.

The intense inbreeding to those Ph. individuals, overode the outcross of Tizbud=Fair Play. When you inbreed to 1 sire line with prolific crosses, it carries a risk of unsoundness.
_________________
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

Crystal · Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:56 am Post subject:

"HANDSOME JOHN (USA) dkb/br. C, 2007 DP = 7-0-19-4-0 (30) DI = 1.22 CD = 0.33 - 5 Starts, 1 Wins, 0 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $26,300

Owner: John M. Liviakis
Breeder: Dream With Me Stables Inc. & Finsbury Bloodstock Ltd.
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 5 Starts: 1 - 0 - 0, $26,300

KEENOV07 $275,000

HANDSOME JOHN br. C, 2007
Shamardal---Moonavara, by Sadler's Wells

HJ is a type 2 FB being inbred, 3 X 5 X 5 ND---3 X 4 Mr. P.---4 X 5 RAN---5 X 5 Native Dancer---4 X 5 Gold Digger mare---4 X 5 Special mare=Hyperion NP outcross.

HJ has 29 crosses of Ph. stallions out of a possible 31, in his 1st 5 generations. HJ has inherited those PH. stallions & mares that have contributed to the most injuries & breakdowns inside the curve of unsoundness, they are:

ND 3 crosses, Nashua, Native Dancer 2 crosses, Hail to Reason, RAN 2 crosses, Nearco, Seretariat, Mr. P. 2 crosses, Nearctic, Storm Cat, Gold Digger 2 crosses, Natalma.

HJ has followed the same FB pattern of winning early, then only starting a few times.

HJ had some problems, & was taken out of training many times, he would come back into training then developed more problems. This is a normal for those FB, their prolific inbreeding takes it's toll on their soundness.

I talked to HJ connections, & they didnt know he was a highly inbred individual. Many trainers & owners dont know how to interpet a pedigree.
"

This is such a load of crap. "Many trainers & owners don't know how to interpet a pedigree".

John Liviakis was just in the TB Times discussing his mating decisions to go to Kitaphla.. Having a connection to him I will bring this to his attention and let him know how you view many owners and trainers out there.. Keep it in your hat Louis because now you are pointing fingers at good people who support this industry by trashing them. You do not have the right to do so.

Bast · Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:03 am Post subject:

louis finochio · Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:17 pm Post subject:

I am not the kind of person to trash anyone. I'ts not the game i play, I am a person of Love & Peace. JL can learn from the pedigree research i did on his tb HJ.

I have been researching pedigree for 60 years, & i am still learning. This thread has broadned my knowledge. I am good friends with JL trainer MC, She is very interested in my research work, as she didnt know that HJ was a FB. All the best My Love, Louis.
_________________
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

louis finochio · Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:47 pm Post subject:

Tizbud decends from the Fair Play sire line, thats a NP outcross. Thus BAB was a Fair Play over Ph. FB mating.
_________________
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

Bast · Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:04 pm Post subject:

karenkarenn · Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:11 pm Post subject:

But Bast you must remember Tizbud wasn't all that durable when it came to racing. He ran what eight times and did what won twice. What happened here? And why? Did he get hurt?
One of my fillies sisters is by Cees Tizzy and she broke down on her first start.
_________________
May the horse be with you!

ElPrado · Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:35 pm Post subject:

This thread is supposed to make sense? Whooda thunk it?!?

diomed · Grade III Winner Joined: 04 Oct 2004 Posts: 1107

Bast · Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:56 pm Post subject:

louis finochio · Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:09 am Post subject:

Tizbud is Inbred 4 X 4 ND---5 X 5 Nearctic---5 X 5 Natalma, these Ph. individuals have appeared in those pedigrees of FB & NFB, that have been injured & prolific numbers of breakdowns. This is an inherited weakness, that is passed on from inbreeding to those individuals.
_________________
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

Roguelet · Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:38 am Post subject:

Roguelet · Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:42 am Post subject:

vineyridge · Grade III Winner Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1134

Actually the coefficient of inbreeding number can be really useful in this context. And the inbreeding percentages as well.

Even if we discount the Y chromosome factor, the Phalaris geneone has been very widely spread. All of it. Back in the 1920's or so, a noted British race breeding expert mentioned, and he has been quoted somewhere fairly recently, that Phalaris was not the strongest of lines.
_________________
Thread Killer Extraordinaire