A legitimate way of introducing Appaloosa markings?

xfactor fan · Breeder's Cup Winner Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 2182

My understanding of the dun vs buckskin is that it depended on the breed and also era.

The advent of genetics as a science turned the whole color thing upside down. What folks are finding is that the phenotype color doesn't always look like the expected genotype.

Jorge · Moderator Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 5476

Checked both cases with other non-Del Mar sources and both are officially registered as (so-called) "Duns". Up to 1968 these were the only two "Duns" appearing in "Sires of American Thoroughbreds". I doubt there were other cases inscribed after 1968, yet who knows!

Ty Time's broodmare sire, Barney Lucas, has been the subject of other threads among dilute coat color enthusiasts here, but I don't have at hand the reference. Perhaps doing some "search" will help.

Jorge · Moderator Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 5476

THE FOLLOWING 3 INTERESTING THREADS ARE CLOSELY RELATED SO I AM POSTING
THEIR LINKS FOR FUTURE CROSS-REFERENCES.

A LEGITIMATE WAY OF INTRODUCING APPALOOSA MARKINGS? [posted by “BAST”]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28476

WEATHERBY’S NTR EXPLAINED [posted by Truly]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28511

FROM PSEUDO-THOROUGHBREDS TO THOROUGHBREDS [posted by Jorge]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28501

Jorge · Moderator Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 5476

Any idea on how to prospectively calculate the probabilities of achieving a mainstream competitive appaloosa Thoroughbred coming from a non-Thoroughbred lineage. Many thinking caps and opinions are needed here!
Please post your opinions.

Idea

Jorge · Moderator Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 5476

Interesting page and new avenues of search.

http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/category.php?c=76

Jorge · Moderator Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 5476

This very interesting stallion lives in Angrovestud's country. Take a look!

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/august+skyhawk

summerhorse · Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:29 pm Post subject:

LP or PATN just haven't shown ANY signs of being in the TB gene pool, ever. So unless you could take a current colored highest percentage possible TB Appaloosa and get it registered with the JC there is just no way to introduce the pattern to registered TBs now.

It was the 80s before people finally realized that dun and cream were different genes. In the UK and Europe many breeds/people still use "dun" for cream. I'm guessing those lines probably died out though. Sad

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angrovestud · Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:19 am Post subject:

you would also have to have your breeding programme perhaps in the UK were you could add the gene at foundation level and then send youngstock over in a few generations it would be a very long term project as I know we are doing this with the Tobiano gene.
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reedhill · Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:52 am Post subject:

[quote="Jorge"]Any idea on how to prospectively calculate the probabilities of achieving a mainstream competitive appaloosa Thoroughbred coming from a non-Thoroughbred lineage. Many thinking caps and opinions are needed here!
Please post your opinions. [quote]

Jorge, Please explain here. You are looking for a TB that looks Appalooosa, but not have any TB bloodlines?
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belambi · Maiden Special Weight Joined: 14 Nov 2009 Posts: 230

There are a fair few 7/8th tbxappaloosas around.and the majority are, strangely enough, coloured.
however, even though they are 7/8ths tb, would they still only be first generation (of 8?) doing the project like angrove?

belambi · Maiden Special Weight Joined: 14 Nov 2009 Posts: 230

and.. do you have to live in UK to register with UK studbook?

Derby Lyn · Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject:

I still hear quite a few people calling duns buckskin and vice versa. And I still see duns gettting registered as buckskins. This is a dun paint gelding I use to own.You can see he is a buckskin color, but he has dun factor. [img]

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accphotography · Restricted Stakes Winner Joined: 29 Jul 2008 Posts: 961

I'd have called him grullo.
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reedhill · Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:17 pm Post subject:

right, because of his dark face
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Derby Lyn · Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:28 pm Post subject:

He was registered as a dun, but in the beginning of summer his whole body would be grullo, then sunbleach(?) to the "buckskin" color and stay that way all winter. I would also say grullo, just making a point that he has the dun factor but most everyone called him a buckskin.
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