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Hold Your Peace
Allowance Winner
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 495
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 Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Seriously?
Everyone is talking about patterns and linebreeding and no one is asking why would you breed a decent mare like this one (or any mare) to Total Command?
No black type, claimed out of his last for a nickel, small number of foals of racing age have done nothing? |
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Tappiano
Grade III Winner
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I missed OP's request to ask what people thought of the stud, I guess I did not look close enough.. |
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Jeff
Allowance Winner
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 482
Location: Nor Cal
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.pedigreequery.com/total+command
7 wins, 4 places, 1 show out of 23 starts, what's not to like?
For a $1,000 stud fee, sounds pretty good to me.
"It doesn't seem to have hurt Sweeter Still. 4x4x4x5 Northern Dancer "
Sure didn't hurt! 
"Just my little humble opinion that War Admiral helped even though it's not in the first 5 generations and/or showing Danzig and Hoist The Flag in the first five. "
Great minds think alike, War Admiral makes everything better: Always. |
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Fireslam
Allowance Winner
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 478
Location: Zambezi
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| 5 of those wins in claiming races, and someones even considering breeding to him? |
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Jeff
Allowance Winner
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 482
Location: Nor Cal
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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A half million dollar auction colt, bought by Bob and Beverly Lewis, trained by D Wayne Lucas, in the money 11 of 23 starts.
Hey, 5 wins is 5 wins
And of course, the topic is the pedigree, not race record. And the fact still remains, line breeding to Northern Dancer is often effective 
But no, of course we wouldn't expect you to breed your mares to him, we would be aghast if you would even consider it 
My God, He ran claiming races!
Oh the Horror! |
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kimberley mine
Grade I Winner
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 1560
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeff wrote: | A half million dollar auction colt, bought by Bob and Beverly Lewis, trained by D Wayne Lucas, in the money 11 of 23 starts.
Hey, 5 wins is 5 wins
And of course, the topic is the pedigree, not race record. |
Uh, no. Race record is CRITICAL to pedigree. Pedigree is how we track the sources for genetic performance. A horse can't pass on a trait he does not have, even if he has parents who do. Race record is how we see if a horse possesses those genetic performance traits, which means that he at least has the possibility of passing them on, until that horse has enough offspring to actually see what he throws.
That six figure auction price meant (a) he was pretty and (b) he had parents/grandparents who demonstrated significant performance ability. The year he was sold as a 2yo, he had a half-brother who had won a Gr-2, he had a half-sister who'd won a Gr-3, and his sire was a hot first-crop stallion. So the Bafferts took a gamble that didn't end up paying out, as their would-be could-be superstar only had the performance ability to win a MSW in Arlington (useful, but not a top-tier track) and then spent most of the rest of his career somewhere between a $12,500 and $30,000 tag. Not bad, since 5 wins is 5 wins, but hardly an indication of better than ham and eggs performance capability that he has to pass on.
Total Command has, in 2012, 3 horses who've run and they've earned a total of less than $5000. In 2011, as a freshman, he had one horse who won $500. Not exactly a promising start. To give him the benefit of the doubt, we have no idea what kind of mares he's seen, BUT if you can go to Supreme Cat for the same stud fee, or Touch Tone for the same fee, or Dixieland Heat for only $500 more....why bother?
And before somebody points out that Supreme Cat's race record is awful, the difference is that he is a proven stallion with enough foals on the ground that it's possible to make an educated opinion on what he's producing, AND that he's the 10th ranked stallion in the state. |
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zinn21
3rd Year Sire
Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 3306
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| kimberley, no doubt this stallion is a longshot. Your thinking is sound and hard to argue against on paper. But I did breed to a stallion in a similar circumstance albeit I've seen enough of his foals run to think he is the real deal as well as the back story info on his racing career-Peppered Cat. |
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kimberley mine
Grade I Winner
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 1560
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| zinn21 wrote: | | kimberley, no doubt this stallion is a longshot. Your thinking is sound and hard to argue against on paper. But I did breed to a stallion in a similar circumstance albeit I've seen enough of his foals run to think he is the real deal as well as the back story info on his racing career-Peppered Cat. |
You kind of make my point for me--if you've seen enough of Peppered Cat's foals race to think he's worth a shot, then he's made it past the pedigree/race record stage and on to the evaluated as a sire based on progeny performance.
Total Command hasn't reached that point yet. Since his foals are too young to pass the jury on him, we don't know what kind of mares he's seen, and we don't know if his foals were even destined for TB racing, and he doesn't seem to have that many of them, it's hard to make an educated guess. So we fall back on pedigree and race record.
I wish you all the best of luck (truly) and hope you get a good horse and have a lot of fun. |
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Jeff
Allowance Winner
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 482
Location: Nor Cal
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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but oh, five wins is five wins, and if you lived in Texas near where this stallion stands, it would be reasonable to give him a shot for a $500 fee.
http://captaincountdown.com/images/captaintotalletter.pdf
Might not be grand and glorious as shipping the mare to Kentucky paying thousands$ for a stud fee and boarding.
But certainly worth considering if one lived in Texas. I believe the original poster is Texas based.
Dangit, the more I look at this horse with his sex balanced ND breeding and that War Admiral daughter 3rd dam the more I like him! |
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Jeff
Allowance Winner
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 482
Location: Nor Cal
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.pedigreequery.com/ill+have+another2
Like I said, Northern Dancer line breeding is often effective. The MR. P worked too.
RAN and ND work so well together because of the sex balanced line breeding to Native Dancer when descendants of the two are crossed, so the theory goes anyway.
Sainfoin/Sierra thing goin on. I remember back in the early/mid 90's when Les Brinsfield and Anne Peters used to comment on this sort of thing over on the yahoo groups tbpedix site. I don't think they give out much free information anymore, they expect to be paid for their opinions, but hey, I still remember for free:-) |
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