mating advice-Mr. Expo mare

3nutmeg · Weanling Joined: 21 May 2012 Posts: 36

Thinking of purchasing a mare by Mr. Expo-Strawberry Card. She seemed to do well early on in minor stakes races then went to claiming making over $100,000. Any advice on NY, PA, KY, low to $7-10,000 stud fee for next year?

Thanks

Tappiano · Grade III Winner Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 1109

I could not tell from PQ what the family is like but I'd be curious where the black type is in the family.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a mare who ran in claiming races, but you'd want to be able to identify some good runners somewhere in the family that would appear on a catalog page, just in case you wanted to sell the foal. My mare was a low level allowance/starter handicap and low level claimer all in the space of a year, but what is attractive about her page is 5 foals under the second dam have black type from 11 starters/winners, all from a different son of Forty Niner, Roar. My mare is sired by Ecton Park.

That mare is also 13, has she had any foals? She looks nice and solid from the picture I saw.

I know that's not what you asked for, I just don't have anything that jumps out at me to say who would be a good match for her, but if there were some runners up a few generations, I'd look at those pedigrees and see what worked and go from there.

DDT · Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:45 pm Post subject:

3nutmeg

I think she would do well with Silver Train, basically a sprinter, but a nice miler also. He has done really well so far and at 7K looks to be worth the fee. If they are a good physical match, the mating has one duplication in 5 generations, 5X5 to Raise a Native. I think this stallion will only get better as his books increase. I am still looking so there may be additional info if I see something I might like. I am only responding to your post and this in no way means this mating would produce a champion, but if she were my mare and they passed on physical I would breed to him.

DDT

Tappiano · Grade III Winner Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 1109

How about re reading what OP said. Confused

Barcaldine · Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject:

Other than being a pretty gray, this mare has very little reason to become a broodmare. It sounds like she's ready to buy her; time to sit back and wait for a mare worthy of a stud fee in her vicinity.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/calce+clunes\

I dont believe members of this forum do anyone a service by encouraging them to breed more worthless animals. It's tough enough for a breeder who has GOOD stock to be successful. Sub-marginal breeding stock usually reproduces itself and the last thing our country needs are more junk horses whose lives usually end tragically.

Q: Where do you think most slaughterhouse horses come from?

A: Breeders who don't face reality.

Tappiano · Grade III Winner Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 1109

The OP did not ask whether it is a good or bad idea to breed the mare, therefore why do YOU think we should ignore the question and proffer up that kind of advice?

If as and when someone asks whether "I" would buy and breed that mare I would give an appropriate answer.

I'll stack my yearling who is out of a $500 mare sired by a season I paid $0 for against any you have, Barcaldine. I'm quite sure had I come to this board and asked "who would you breed this mare to" you'd probably want to say she was a cheap claimer and not to bother but it's my money and my mare and I'll even stack her physically against any mare you have. I'll even stack up the foal she has not had yet against any you have coming next year. Go ahead, share some pictures of your herd, my mare and yearling are easy to find on this board.

Perhaps you should just answer their question and earn their respect. Maybe, just maybe then they might come around and ask that question and then you can answer why it is or is not a good idea to breed. You wont gain anyone's respect by trying to bully them into running away.

Jeff · Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject:

She's a lovely mare, will give you a lovely foal! I'll start looking for a stallion for her and get back to you.

Barcaldine · Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:47 pm Post subject:

As I said, I dont believe members of this forum do anyone a service by encouraging them to breed more worthless animals.

Posters like Jeff, you and several others who persist in trying to find reasons why their blessed Molly should reproduce are in stark denial about reality. It's not the cost of a mare, per se, that makes her a poor risk, but her intrinsic value. ANY horse has outstanding ancestors far enough back in their pedigrees; that doesnt qualify them to breed on.

It's the smart fellow who recognizes the folly of his ways and works hard to start over. I dont feel its my duty on this forum to co-sign bad decisions. I choose tough love--it's much more helpful in the long run.

Tappiano · Grade III Winner Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 1109

Go ahead, point out exactly where I said they should breed the mare on this or any other thread.

What makes you the expert on what should and should not be bred anyway? You have your share of low level claimers that couldn't outrun a lead pony that you deemed valuable enough to spend lots of money on stud fees. Some might say that is foolish but at the end of the day, that's your money and you think you can flip them for profit so is that what your criteria is? Not every half sibling to a stakes winner should be bred, you know. Some are just so poorly conformed that to breed them would risk perpetuating traits that are far worse than any horse that has a pedigree that you find "bland".

Don't lump me in as being part of the problem and not part of the solution. Anyone who comes onto an internet forum to ask for advice and does not do their own due diligence is setting themselves up for failure and it won't matter what you or I or anyone else says.

Barcaldine · Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:34 pm Post subject:

Tappiano, when I see you taking a stand on only one side of the fence by discouraging the perpetuation of bad-pedigreed horses then I will consider you part of the solution. JMO.

Jeff · Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject:

The poster did not ask anybody's opinion on whether the mare should be bred or not, nor anyone's opinion as to the value of the mare, the OP just asked for a stallion choice for a mating.

The rest is uncalled for harassment.

Jeff

Tappiano · Grade III Winner Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 1109

Actually, Barcaldine, the breeding farms themselves should be part of the solution, don't you think? You know, the one's you sent your prized, better than everyone else's broodmares to? Perhaps that's where the buck should stop, not here on this forum where you think that I should tell someone that they should not buy or breed a mare when that wasn't what they asked.

You don't know WHO the OP is, for all you know it could be someone who might want to buy one of those horses you are trying to flip and they want to see you in your natural light. For someone as intelligent as you claim to be, you do know how you come across, don't you?

Barcaldine · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:43 am Post subject:

Take a deep breath, Tappiano. You're taking this thread to a destination no one wants to visit.

griff · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:05 am Post subject:

nutmeg

your proposed mare has a pedigree that could match with almost any stallion w/o any, or vey little, up close line breeding.

the various nicking programs all have their flaws, one of which is the ignore the mares, however Werks Mare Match might be a good place to sat looking at possibilities. Mind you the only stallions Mare Mach will nick are the ones that have paid to be included in the Mare Match process.

The WERK Mare Match programs does not include any stallions that provide a B+ rating with your mare; however, the KY region contain three, and the one I like best is with Successful Appeal.

I realize Successful Appeal is not in your price range but maybe you can find some Valid Appeal or Relaunch sire line stallion in the Mid Atlantic region that appeal to you.

Honour and Glory is a Relaunch get and stood in PA before going to SA. He started in KY before moving to PA but most stallions don't stay in KY very long and I would nog hold that against him as he was good enough for the Mosses to breed to Delicate Vine.

Good luck.

griff
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bayrabicano · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:22 am Post subject:

What a beautiful mare....and she won $70K as a two-year old. Not many pull that off. I like the prince John up close, too.
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