Male line descent

Bast · Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:10 pm Post subject: Male line descent

Sorry to be so vague--I should have paid more attention to this when I read it, but long ago and far away I read about a branch of one of the founding sire lines that did not go through Matchem, Herod, or Eclipse, AND which survived until the early 20th century.

Does anyone have any names to put with this vague old memory? Cool

xfactor fan · Breeder's Cup Winner Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 2180

I too have that vague memory, probably something in print 30-40 years ago. The problem with the database is that if they the pedigrees of horses currently running, then only "live" branches would go back to the founders.

For what it is worth my creaky memory keeps bringing up xxx Turk. Now which turk it might be is the question.

racefansan · Newborn Joined: 19 Dec 2004 Posts: 2 Location: Kansas, USA

It's possible that one or both of you is thinking of Alcock's Arabian, but his male line did not, as far as I know, persist into the 20th century. TB Heritage has this to say about his descendant Aimwell:
"Aimwell won the Epsom Derby in 1785, the only sire line descendant (Alcock Arabian) other than the "Big Three" to do so."
Does that ring any bells?

parlo · Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:51 am Post subject:

As far as I know

http://www.bloodlines.net/TB/Sirelines/SireLines.htm

lists any researchable tb-sire-line until its extinction.

vineyridge · Grade III Winner Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1134

I have the same vague memory. But like y'all it's been lost in the mists.
_________________
Thread Killer Extraordinaire

majxmom · Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject:

Could you have been thinking of The Brownlow Turk? I believe that ALL of the initial mares in the General Sire Book (UK) were all from Herod, Matchem, and Eclipse, but this Brownlow Turk was a grey horse. There was a woman who was a pedigree scholar named Lady Wentworth, and she determined that this is the same horse as Alcock's Arabian; it just changed names when it changed owners. Somehow AA/BT is responsible for a continuous line of greys in Thoroughbreds; maybe he is the sire of one of the original General Sire Book mares?
_________________
"When I am on my deathbed, I imagine I will say, 'Thank God I did that'" - Arthur Hancock, on buying back Gato del Sol from Europe after Exceller was killed in a slaughterhouse in Sweden.

Bast · Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:33 pm Post subject:

majxmom · Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject:

Here's an interesting forum from 2008 discussing it:

http://www.racecafe.co.nz/forum/printthread.php?t=29269&pp=40

Scroll down and look for the post by Peter Jenkins. He says:

"All TBs today trace to just 3 unique sirelines - Godolphin Arabian, Byerley Turk & Darley Arabian. Other sires at the birth of the breed were Fenwick Barb, St. Victor's Barb, Lister Turk, Darcy's White Turk, Darcy's Yellow Turk, Fairfax Morocco Barb, and Leede's Arabian. "

Are any of those the one of which you were thinking? It was an interesting story that Jenkins told about finding the Godolphin Arabian's grave.
_________________
"When I am on my deathbed, I imagine I will say, 'Thank God I did that'" - Arthur Hancock, on buying back Gato del Sol from Europe after Exceller was killed in a slaughterhouse in Sweden.