| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bdw0617
Darley line
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 8930
Location: Little Rock, AR
|
 Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:44 am Post subject: the 300, 000 dollar equipment change |
 |
|
harrington took the blinkers off creative cause for the santa anita derby. why? why tinker with something that works? i don't get it
when he hit the stretch yesterday he started looking around / going in and out in the stretch. considering he lost by a nose that was the difference in the race. 300 thousand dollar difference between 1st and 2nd.
_________________
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
- Einstein |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Swaps1955
Allowance Winner
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 406
Location: West Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| From what I'd read, he had been looking around with blinkers on and didn't pay attention to the competition. I guess Harrington thought that if he saw the competition he might be more competitive. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
reenci
Grade II Winner
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 1275
Location: ny
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Swaps1955 wrote: | | From what I'd read, he had been looking around with blinkers on and didn't pay attention to the competition. I guess Harrington thought that if he saw the competition he might be more competitive. |
when watching C.C'S race before the santa anita derby i noticed him gawking around when they turned for home....his trainer stated that he has been thinking of taking the blinkers off, and doing it before the derby was the time to do it...not on the eve of the KY DERBY  ....seems to me it was the right move  ...yes it might have cost him the win in the short term  , but his trainer is looking at the long term goal... ..THE KY DERBY....and he's comming up to that race in fine mettle so far....him and gemologist are going to be hard to deny
_________________
A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bdw0617
Darley line
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 8930
Location: Little Rock, AR
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| reenci wrote: | | Swaps1955 wrote: | | From what I'd read, he had been looking around with blinkers on and didn't pay attention to the competition. I guess Harrington thought that if he saw the competition he might be more competitive. |
when watching C.C'S race before the santa anita derby i noticed him gawking around when they turned for home....his trainer stated that he has been thinking of taking the blinkers off, and doing it before the derby was the time to do it...not on the eve of the KY DERBY ....seems to me it was the right move ...yes it might have cost him the win in the short term , but his trainer is looking at the long term goal... ..THE KY DERBY....and he's comming up to that race in fine mettle so far....him and gemologist are going to be hard to deny |
you know what i have put some thought into this and you really can't blame the trainer for trying i mean he tried and that would usually work.
with creative cause though, i don't think it's a blinker / non blinker issue i think it's more complicated than that. i think you have to get old school and think Ferdernand with how you have to deal with him. whenever he gets the lead or has a lot of open space around him he gawks and darts in and out just like Fernanand did.
I think with him, it's really more about just timing the move JUST right so he hits the lead and hits the wire about as close as possible.
notice in the race before this one he hit the lead and was full of horse than as soon as he hits the lead it's like okay let me stop and smell the flowers, oh look at the people hey people lol. just doing everything he could but race but before he hit the lead, about as professional as can be.
he did the same thing in the SA derby when he was angled out and has some room it looked like he was going to blaze by.
i'm not convinced that I'll have another is better than CC. I think he is more professional than CC but I think CC has not been gotten to the bottom of yet. just my personal opinion.
_________________
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
- Einstein |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Swaps1955
Allowance Winner
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 406
Location: West Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I agree with BDW. Incidentally, I got to the saddling paddock about 5 minutes after the horses did and had some interesting observations. I'll Have Another was extremely professional there. Longview Drive looked quiet, but sweat was dripping from under the saddle towel and it got worse as he got closer to heading to the walking ring. The sweat was not visible on the t.v. screen. Keep an eye on Paynter. He won his first race incredibly well, but when I got to the saddling paddock, I kept (over and over) hearing this crashing, banging the wall and a head popping up over the isolated saddling stall. Finally a horse emerged and it was Paynter. After his first win he knew why he was there and was quite a handful. He dragged two handlers around, leaping out of his saddling stall and trying to dash around. And he was coming at the three leaders at the finish, although he was still 3 back. Watch him in the future. If he doesn't lose his race in the saddling paddock, he'd definitely got a future. And being by Awesome Again out of a non-winning full sister to Tiznow doesn't hurt! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bdw0617
Darley line
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 8930
Location: Little Rock, AR
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Swaps1955 wrote: | | I agree with BDW. Incidentally, I got to the saddling paddock about 5 minutes after the horses did and had some interesting observations. I'll Have Another was extremely professional there. Longview Drive looked quiet, but sweat was dripping from under the saddle towel and it got worse as he got closer to heading to the walking ring. The sweat was not visible on the t.v. screen. Keep an eye on Paynter. He won his first race incredibly well, but when I got to the saddling paddock, I kept (over and over) hearing this crashing, banging the wall and a head popping up over the isolated saddling stall. Finally a horse emerged and it was Paynter. After his first win he knew why he was there and was quite a handful. He dragged two handlers around, leaping out of his saddling stall and trying to dash around. And he was coming at the three leaders at the finish, although he was still 3 back. Watch him in the future. If he doesn't lose his race in the saddling paddock, he'd definitely got a future. And being by Awesome Again out of a non-winning full sister to Tiznow doesn't hurt! |
paynter also had trouble going into the gate and delayed the race a tad.
sounds like a true head case.
_________________
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
- Einstein |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
reenci
Grade II Winner
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 1275
Location: ny
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
SWAPS1955...if the paddock at the S.A. DERBY made him nervous....whats the paddock at the derby going to do to him  ....still in all he could be a nice horse down the road......as for bdw0617....i think your right we have not seen or gotten to the bottom of C.C. yet....and i think thats his trainers plan all along......and it really pains me to say it but todd pletcher has the horse for the big dance again...GEMOLOGIST....HE TOYED WITH ALPA.....so if CC and GEM stay healthy it looks like them two.....only one i can see upseting them is DULAHAN.....but we have to wait for the blue grass dont we...that will be telling for him. only thing i dont like about him is his nit wit rider "kent d "
_________________
A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ratherrapid
Grade III Winner
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239
Location: kansas city, missouri
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
With blinkers would cc have seen I'll have Another coming on? if ur horse runs at the front for much of the race do u want him wearing blinkers that will prevent seeing another coming. seems the trainer made the right move with the blinkers. maybe he should have been worrying about the training. seems to me cc may have got run down by a fitter horse. check PPs.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bdw0617
Darley line
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 8930
Location: Little Rock, AR
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| reenci wrote: | | SWAPS1955...if the paddock at the S.A. DERBY made him nervous....whats the paddock at the derby going to do to him ....still in all he could be a nice horse down the road......as for bdw0617....i think your right we have not seen or gotten to the bottom of C.C. yet....and i think thats his trainers plan all along......and it really pains me to say it but todd pletcher has the horse for the big dance again...GEMOLOGIST....HE TOYED WITH ALPA.....so if CC and GEM stay healthy it looks like them two.....only one i can see upseting them is DULAHAN.....but we have to wait for the blue grass dont we...that will be telling for him. only thing i dont like about him is his nit wit rider "kent d " |
i would not go that far as to say he toyed with alpha. fought him off tooth and nail is more accurate IMHO.
not really all that impressed with either. slow horses.
_________________
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
- Einstein |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ElPrado
Grade II Winner
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1478
Location: Tampa
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Slow field for the Derby coming up period. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bast
Sophomore Sire
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Posts: 3185
Location: SW Ohio
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ElPrado wrote: | | Slow field for the Derby coming up period. |
Slow, green, soft, not mentally ready for a difficult race.
It's harder and harder to become excited about the Kentucky Derby as the trend keeps going towards running a race for maiden winners plus winning one graded stakes race with an enormous purse (no matter how long ago and at whatever distance that happened).
_________________
May 2013: Plan ahead now for the Phalaris/Teddy Centennial!
*****************************
A horse gallops with his lungs
Perseveres with his heart
And wins with his character. --Tesio |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bdw0617
Darley line
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 8930
Location: Little Rock, AR
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i think creative cause and i'l have another are legit and would be legit any year probalby outside of 2007.
the rest meh.
_________________
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
- Einstein |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
majxmom
Grade I Winner
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 1539
Location: Knightsen, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's really hard for a trainer to make an equipment change when a horse is winning, even if it looks like it is needed. I remember Alex Solis telling Mel Stute that Snow Chief needed blinkers at least one race before the Derby, and Mel said he couldn't put them on as long as he was winning. Snow Chief didn't fire in the Derby, and Mel had them on for the Preakness--shazam! Huge win. I don't think he ever ran without them again.
_________________
"When I am on my deathbed, I imagine I will say, 'Thank God I did that'" - Arthur Hancock, on buying back Gato del Sol from Europe after Exceller was killed in a slaughterhouse in Sweden. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bdw0617
Darley line
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 8930
Location: Little Rock, AR
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| majxmom wrote: | | It's really hard for a trainer to make an equipment change when a horse is winning, even if it looks like it is needed. I remember Alex Solis telling Mel Stute that Snow Chief needed blinkers at least one race before the Derby, and Mel said he couldn't put them on as long as he was winning. Snow Chief didn't fire in the Derby, and Mel had them on for the Preakness--shazam! Huge win. I don't think he ever ran without them again. |
very interesting.
creative cause just to me seems very very quirky. empire maker / toussaud like kinda. you have to basically jockey past his quirks. i don't think there is any equipment that's going to help him out. almost like he beats himself.
he really has only ran one bad race and that was the BC and he had a very legit excuse for that (got in a training accident the week of the BC). but even the races he wins like the last race he wasn't even running agianst the 2nd place horse as much as he was trying to just beat his own quirks.
_________________
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
- Einstein |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bast
Sophomore Sire
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Posts: 3185
Location: SW Ohio
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Regarding equipment changes...
40 and more years ago, when 3 y os raced more often and trained a lot harder, there were more opportunities to try something different, allowing for more "fine-tuning" of equipment and race strategies.
_________________
May 2013: Plan ahead now for the Phalaris/Teddy Centennial!
*****************************
A horse gallops with his lungs
Perseveres with his heart
And wins with his character. --Tesio |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Search
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
