STALLIONS OVERTAXED? How long before 200 number is reached?

ballymoss

JC stats are out. 23 studs have produced over one-hundred foals in 2004.

Leading producers:

TALE OF THE CAT........153 foals
GRAND SLAM, & JOHANNESBURG.........145 each
STORMY ATLANTIC...........138

With dual-hemisphere breeding, exactly how long before a stud sires over TWO-HUNDRED?????

Can a stallion, REALISTICALLY, sire that many foals in a year, and still remain viable???????

'Twas a time when a FULL BOOK meant forty mares per year.

Tairaterces · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:15 am Post subject:

Maybe that's why these poor guys are falling over and breaking their necks.

T
Sad

_________________
"and Secretariat let no one down on the unforgettable afternoon of June 9, 1973, when he ran a hole in the wind"
~Bob Ehalt~

Avatar: Istabraq (Sadler's Wells x Betty's Secret by Secretariat) Champion Hurdler

Jorge · Moderator Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 5545

Would like to see future statistics on the life expectancy of shuttling sires. I foresee that with all that stress and new environment adaptations the life expectancy will be around two years less than the average sire. Of course I have no statistics to prove it but stress and adaptation are important variables to reckon with in any scenario. Its not the same thing to have a special groom for several years than to have new grooms with different styles and idiosyncracies. Just an opinion.

Ruffian · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:37 pm Post subject:

It is absolutely ridiculous!!!! What I think is funny that the excellent sires i.e. Danehill right when he struck gold they said they were going to leave him for the year(he died the subsquent season), does Sadlers Wells shuttle? Or Storm Cat? NO. Because it DOES have an effect on there life-time I feel and I think the major farms know to hence they only send the 'stocking stuffers'. lol Its awful, I feel that a new rule should go into place that a stallions fee is a fraction of the mares sent to him, man coolmore would only cover about 2 mares then!!! lol Only in my dreams Rolling Eyes

madelyn · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:13 pm Post subject:

what happened to limiting the supply to support the demand and hold prices? If Tale of the Cat has 145 yearlings, will they bring the same prices as if there were only 45 of them? And with that kind of quantity, does quality suffer? It used to be that your mare had to be "approved" -- I guess now any mare will do as long as you will pay the fee and she is a reg. TB.....

BJ · Horse of the Year Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 2650

Madelyn,

I definitely think the quanity will erode the quality. This is precisely why the killpens are so full. And when the market is saturated, these animals are even more the throw-aways than they are now!

ballymoss · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:15 am Post subject: TB TIMES survey

TB Times survey question on webpage mirrors my post about number of foals per year. Hmmmm, wonder where they got the idea? TB Times spy on this board? Probably.

Sysonby · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:53 am Post subject:

FWIW, I don't find todays breeding a very elegant practice but the game has been opened up for people who otherwise couldn't play. It wasn't that long ago that the breeder as well as the mare had to be approved to go to a major stallion in Kentucky and a very small handful of people controlled all the stallions anyone would want to go to. People didn't waltz off the street with a bunch of money and a good mare and breed to Bold Ruler or Buckpasser or Nijinsky.

Nowadays, I suspect any resourceful person with enough capital and a select quality mare can go to just about any stallion (including AP Indy and Storm Cat) even if they have to go through a secondary stallion season market to do it. Elsewhere there is a thread about what happened to Claiborne. My 2 cents on the matter is that the market shifted away from them and you no longer have to be a friend of Seth to be a breeder. Even more importantly, Seth made no apparent effort to cultivate the new money guys as clients. Gone are the days when some client family who has been with the farm through 3 generations will sustain them. Those people are dying off or drifting away from the game.

I'm fairly confident that any one of us with a mare and some money could apply to Tale of the Cat or Giant's Causeway and get in. That's not necessarily a bad thing for an industry that prides itself in being international in scope. As for the separate observation that the horse matter more nowadays than the page, I think that's a GOOD thing if we are trying to breed athletes. Unfortunately it is coupled with the burgeoning pinhooking mentality that doesn't allow the animal to develop at his own pace.

Overall the game nowadays doesn't have the exclusivity it once had but you can argue that it is a little more businesslike in some ways.

ides of ice · Yearling Joined: 13 Jun 2012 Posts: 73 Location: Ocala

Yeah, so much for the Sport of Kings!
_________________
knowledge is power

DDT · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject:

ides

I don't know if you know that the last post before you bumped this up was posted in 2004, almost 8 years ago, and when I read it the first thing I looked at was when it was posted, and I am still laughing out loud, thank you, and then when I realized it was even more true today I started all over again, I can't stop laughing.

DDT

ElPrado · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject:

Talk about subterranean posts.

pfrsue · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:48 pm Post subject:

It's really strange, but I was starting to do research on shuttling stallions just this morning for a project I'm doing. And voila! This thread was resurrected. LOL

Anyone have any current thoughts on the business and health ramifications of shuttling?

summerhorse · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:47 pm Post subject:

I think it might have something to do with the fertility problems some of these stallions have at a relatively young age (late teens, early 20s) and the "infirmities of old age" they have at the same relatively young ages. Imagine the beating those hind legs take?

I'd never breed to these open book horses, it's a lot easier to take your pick from what is on the ground and at least you k now a little more about what you are getting.
_________________
Every mighty oak was once an acorn that stood its ground.

ides of ice · Yearling Joined: 13 Jun 2012 Posts: 73 Location: Ocala

xfactor fan · Breeder's Cup Winner Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 2202

I think the social isolation is unnatural. Also keeping stallions together decreases testosterone. Probably related to what happens to a bachelor band in the wild.

I suspect that stallions that get more exercise last longer than ones that don't. Also stallions that are thinner last longer.