hand vs pasture breeding

[CampRiver]

just wondering whats everyone's take on hand vs pasture breeding....

[casallc]

just wondering whats everyone's take on hand vs pasture breeding....

If you have the pasture and don't mind seeing your horse get a few lumps and scrapes on him - let them do all the work. They will do a better job anyway if you're not breeding a lot of mares. Problem comes when you bring in new mares and take out mares. The pecking order has to be re-established and sometimes the matriarch or the stud will run off a new mare.

[madelyn]

Depends on the value of the stallion. He can get pretty badly hurt pasture breeding.

[bcassidy]

no contest hand breed. Call in a vet if you can't do it yourself.
You are asking for trouble with pasture breeding unless you keep the stallion with the mare for long periods of time, especially while they are not in season. I think it would border on animal cruelty to introduce a stallion to a mare for the first time while she is in season........One or both of them can get seriously hurt and you better have good and safe fences if she is not ready to be bred---a vet on call would also be a safe propostion.

[summerhorse]

Yeah for pasture breeding the stallion should stay with the mares all year long. It can get hairy when new mares are introduced but introducing new horses to herds almost always is! You do need fairly large pastures so if a new mare is not accepted she has room to get away. In a closed herd it works quite well though. Of course you can still have your own pasture herd and still hand breed your stallion to outside mares.

[CampRiver]

I dont plan on doing the breeding myself, I am bringing in some experienced people to help. I knew that there are some people out there that did pasture breeding and was just wondering why some people went that route.

[madelyn]

As I said, it depends on the value of the stallion. One kick, placed just right, can kill him. Also, he might take to savaging mares.

Hand breeding is superior, in all respects, if you have your ducks in a row, know how to read your mares, etc.

[Gerry]

We have 1 stallion who wont hand breed..so last year we put him out May 1 and took him out July 1 and have every mare due during that 2 month span. The real downfall with pasture breeding is that you dont have an exact cover date so you really have to keep a close eye on the mares around foaling time. We had no problems introducing him to the mares, just made sure that one mare was inheat and receptive to him and they all got along just fine. I dont see how that borders on animal cruelty...everytime a stallion is introduced to a mare in handbreeding there is a risk of injury to everyone involved and pasture breeding is no different, except that they can escape from one and another quicker.

[Sock Monkey]

I knew that there are some people out there that did pasture breeding and was just wondering why some people went that route.

The answer to that question is that it's easier. I also know some people who think horses do better in a more natural herd-type environment.

As Gerry said, the downside is that you don't have an exact cover date. But, of the people I know who pasture breed, none of them really make an effort to be present when the mare foals. All of them have a foal loss rate that is higher than I would be okay with.

I'll share a story that made me second guess pasturing breeding for myself:

Last year, a couple of naughty open mares got loose and broke into the teaser's paddock. The teaser is actually a QH show stallion who does double duty and is housed in a five board stallion paddock. These slutty girls kicked down the top three boards and apparently jumped over the bottom two to get in with him (I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen it!). Both were in heat, but this normally mild mannered stallion literally attacked one of them. When I found them, he was grabbing her by the throat and trying to shake her. The other mare was freaking out and was double barrelling him in the privates. They were all dripping with sweat and bloody.

I, naturally, was by myself. I got the kicking mare caught and pulled out of the field but while I was doing that, the stallion got the other mare down and was striking her. I had to beat him off of her with a piece of broken fence board - which was handy since the rotten mares broke the boards when they kicked through - amazing no one got seriously hurt in that part of the stunt.

I was certain we had serious injuries, but everyone was fine and neither of the mares was bred, either. Just some scrapes and minor bite marks. I was really, really lucky. But, it really turned me off of the idea of pasture breeding. I'm sure this was probably a freak situation and the stallion was worked up from having his fence kicked down, but it scared me enough to make me very hesitant about turning mares out with a stallion deliberately.

[casallc]

It has been my experience that most (not professionals) who have a stud don't have a clue about a mares reproductive cycle and behavior neither do they have a clue about a stud and their behavior. I would rather see nature take its course pasture breeding than all the catastrophes and train wrecks by adding dumb people to the equation. I know people who have been in the business 30 years and still cling to old wives tales and myths. Very few horses that are breeding today have any value at all and they keep that tradition alive with every mating.

[Bondama]

I am one of those that prefers pasture breeding. Of course, I have a small herd, they all live together, and outside as a herd (with available shelter if they want it). I have found this natural style of living to be beneficial to everyone. My horses are content and very easy to handle as a result. (None of the stresses of confinement) Of course, my stallion has an extremely docile temperament, which I understand is not the norm, so I am sure that contributes to the ease of managing my breeding program. Too, I do monitor and record as many of the cover dates as I personally witness to give me a better idea of that mare's due date, and I watch the mares closely to know when they're close to delivering, know their individual signs, and attend every birth. I have not lost a foal yet, except an early abortion/stillbirth due to a case of placentitis, and once a twin. Pasture breeding can work, and does work, for a lot of people and horses.

[CampRiver]

wow, there are many varying degrees of opinions on this topic!
sockmonkey-whew, that was a hair raising experience, Im glad all the horses involved came out ok!
Gerry, do you mind me asking which stallion of yours wont hand breed?
I remember years ago, I went to go look at a stallion and come to find out, he wouldnt breed real mares-they could only do AI with him as he would only breed the dummy mare

[AscotStud]

It has been my experience that most (not professionals) who have a stud don't have a clue about a mares reproductive cycle and behavior neither do they have a clue about a stud and their behavior. I would rather see nature take its course pasture breeding than all the catastrophes and train wrecks by adding dumb people to the equation. I know people who have been in the business 30 years and still cling to old wives tales and myths. Very few horses that are breeding today have any value at all and they keep that tradition alive with every mating.

huh!!! is there a PBA (Professional Breeders Association) I wasn't told about. It's nice you feel so highly about everybody's mares, I think there are quite a few people on this board who may disagree.

Hand breeding is easy, if the mare is in a good heat all you need is two people, one on the stallion, one on the mare. Save your horses from getting beat up for nothing.

[Dave C]

Having done both I find that pasture breeding is far easier and safer for both horses and people. Mean rank stallions are going to cause problems either way and you're not going to have problems either way with well mannered stallions and mares.

I know people and horses that have gotten seriously hurt during hand breeding and I had to rebook a mare a couple years back because the stallion got kicked during hand breedings and was out of commission for the duration of the breeding season.

Good judgement about your horses is important if you are going to be pasture breeding. Don't pasture breed with a stallion that has been raised in a stall all his life. Playing and socializing with other horses at a young age is critical for developing proper sexual behavior. If you doubt this read the recent research on Panda's. Panda's raised in isolation are shy or none breeders. Panda's raised in social groups will breed like rabbits. Stallions which have not been properly socialized at a young age may be shy, or they may be violent, either way you don't want to just turn them out with mares and hope for the best.

Only pasture breed with small groups of mares who are willing to coexist in a herd. If you are going to have a lot of mares coming in and out during the breeding season pasture breeding is a bad idea. The mares and stallion may not get along with the excessive fighting that goes with that, as well as it is bad, bad biosecurity to be constantly mixing horses. If you are going to have just a few outside mares come in for breeding you can take the stallion away for hand breeding.

If you are seriously thinking about pasture breeding talk to non-racing horsemen. TB and standardbred horsemen are among the least knowledgeable horsemen you can consult. Other breeds will tend to have a much better handle on the actual benefits and risks involved.

[timex]

Depends on the horses. My mother's TB mare will be pasture bred this year, she's an experienced broodmare, he's an awesome stud, is a total gentleman to his mares, and it'll make my life easier. My own TB broodmares will be bred in hand. we don't own the studs, which made the decision for us, obviously. Even if we did, both of my mares this year are maidens, so i'm not sure we wouldn't stick to breeding in hand. Hard to tell what they're going to do, being new to the whole idea. My Morgans are prety much all pasture bred. Experienced studs and broodmares, the stallions are notoriously sweet and the mares know that all they have to do to send the studs to the other side of the paddock in a hurry is to make one nasty face.

And who said you won't have any idea of a foaling date with pasture breeding? It's easy enough to figure out when a mare is in heat and when she is no longer coming into heat if you bother to pay attention to the behavior of your critters. good care is good care, regardless of HOW you choose to breed your mares. For us, it's easy. Our studs have thier own paddocks, and are only in with the mares when the mares are in heat. We haven't had any accidents (in 20+ years), both the studs and mares are uninjured, and we're all happy. (And, for the record, my pasture-bred Morgan mare is due June 24 this year.)