I've said this before, but I think we need to know the law as it is today. Its been a while, but I think:
State law says tracks have to offer an average of two Tx-bred races per day and one of those is to be a maiden race. There is a lot of wiggle room in that statement. Terms like "average" and offer seem to give the tracks an out. Having said that, the tracks seem to do a good job of giving us those two races.
There was a TTA study dealing with the "Fair Circuit" but like the "Bluejean Briggade" nothing seems to have come of it. I'm thinking that the County Fair folks were not interested, maybe The Horse group could take up the quest.
We are not going to change the opinions of the TTA Board, so maybe we need to look at replacing some of those people. That would take advertising and The TTA no longer publishes a magazine. I guess someone with a lot of money could advertise in the HBPA publication or a bunch of us could come together and get Vicki to write some good sounding Obama like propaganda and all of us pitch in to pay for it. I bet there is something in the TTA bylaws preventing campaigning for the board.
Now if any of the TTA Board members read this, please feel free to defend your beliefs, maybe my perseptions of you are all wrong.
Dang, I rite like an illiterate t-sip. Sorry
Texas Thoroughbred Forum
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
I forgot the breed-back. I think that TRC would have to have congress to approve any changes. Most likely, I'm wrong.
You don't have to contact the TRC on dates, I've been told in a very nice email that they will read our post here and consider our ideas. If any of you lurkers have not posted your opinions, NOW WOULD BE AN EXCELLENT TIME TO DO SO.
You don't have to contact the TRC on dates, I've been told in a very nice email that they will read our post here and consider our ideas. If any of you lurkers have not posted your opinions, NOW WOULD BE AN EXCELLENT TIME TO DO SO.
Loving God, Loving People and Serving = Peace and Happiness
Try it you will like it.
Try it you will like it.
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jrgators
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Roger wrote:There was a TTA study dealing with the "Fair Circuit" but like the "Bluejean Briggade" nothing seems to have come of it. I'm thinking that the County Fair folks were not interested, maybe The Horse group could take up the quest.
Here is my experience with the fair circuit. I believe it has been looked at, and like EveRythInG else, it took a back seat to the slots legislation. I do understand that there is some interest by Trinity Meadows to get up and moving maybe as early as next Spring/Summer.
I think the biggest drag on this idea is money to get the paperwork done, and getting these tracks up and ready to roll. This isn't too far off if we can get a few people behind it. I don't want to quote anyone, but I've been in conversations that make me believe there is an interest. There should be! What would be wrong with having more ways to get people into betting on TX racing.
I'd like to know how the simulcasting went this past weekend at the different tracks here having such big races and the popular Zenyatta racing yesterday. Could somebody email me with that, or post it on here how much more money.
Think about it guys...when people come out to "our" tracks to bet, guess what, they'll bet on "our" stuff too!
One of the biggest things that hurts our tracks right now also is the lack of advertisement. We have thousands of horse people in this business. Each of us set a personal goal to invite 25 NEW people out to the races, just think what a difference we could make! Don't just invite them when your horse is racing, but just because it's Friday night, and a filly by Commanchero is running in the 3rd, and a Magic Cat colt is running in the 7th. Just try it. We need to be the source of advertisement since the tracks can't do it.
Theo[/b]
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jrgators
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Bringing people BACK is an excellent idea, and too is bringing new people. But we have to work together to make that happen.
You have some of the horse people who are not in favor of the gimmicks, like concerts, hot dog specials, etc. you also have tracks who don't want to do that either.
I live and work in the Austin area, we have a track in Manor Tx that runs in the spring. People look at me like I need medication when I say there is a track in Manor! Most people have NO idea that it's even there!!
Retama is a great track. It's in a good location I feel, but nobody knows when it's running generally either. It sits right on I-35, but it's north of San Antonio, and South of Austin. People need a reason to come, and I believe that they will.
Theo
You have some of the horse people who are not in favor of the gimmicks, like concerts, hot dog specials, etc. you also have tracks who don't want to do that either.
I live and work in the Austin area, we have a track in Manor Tx that runs in the spring. People look at me like I need medication when I say there is a track in Manor! Most people have NO idea that it's even there!!
Retama is a great track. It's in a good location I feel, but nobody knows when it's running generally either. It sits right on I-35, but it's north of San Antonio, and South of Austin. People need a reason to come, and I believe that they will.
Theo
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keyranch
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Thanks guys, I suggest web searches first and then a simple phone call the the thoroughbred associations in each state. Be sure and get pros and cons of each system. In Oklahoma the OTB's are in hotels, restaraunts, Indian bingo halls and casinos. How many there are, I do not know. R. D. Logan is a good guy, good to talk to, and the director of OTA.
If we can find out the numbers and venue sizes, we can probably multiply it out to get the overall handle impact for our population. For example, Instant race machines generated 220 million in handle in 2008 in Hot Springs, AR, population 350k. Give access to these machines to 15 million people and you are talking about 1 billion dollars in handle a year. We have over 10 million people we need to introduce to racing in Texas alone. Take the product to the people.
We can see what happens if the race tracks get control of the venues, then nothing will get done. 2nd the money will not go where it is needed the most, which is the T-bred fund and stallion stakes. If someone wants to come play in Texas then they need to raise them or buy them in Texas. Doing this stuff so that the money is drained out of the state faster than it can be generated is no different than people crossing the state line to gamble in surrounding states. The difference is that by not putting in breedback rules and designating the increased revenue going through the T-bred fund; we are doing it to ourselves. We made a promise to the state for economic developement and the industry has failed to keep that promise. We better keep it now if we are to get cooperation from the powers to be!
If we can find out the numbers and venue sizes, we can probably multiply it out to get the overall handle impact for our population. For example, Instant race machines generated 220 million in handle in 2008 in Hot Springs, AR, population 350k. Give access to these machines to 15 million people and you are talking about 1 billion dollars in handle a year. We have over 10 million people we need to introduce to racing in Texas alone. Take the product to the people.
We can see what happens if the race tracks get control of the venues, then nothing will get done. 2nd the money will not go where it is needed the most, which is the T-bred fund and stallion stakes. If someone wants to come play in Texas then they need to raise them or buy them in Texas. Doing this stuff so that the money is drained out of the state faster than it can be generated is no different than people crossing the state line to gamble in surrounding states. The difference is that by not putting in breedback rules and designating the increased revenue going through the T-bred fund; we are doing it to ourselves. We made a promise to the state for economic developement and the industry has failed to keep that promise. We better keep it now if we are to get cooperation from the powers to be!
This morning's Chronicle - Front Page:
Jim "Mattress Mac" MacIngvale, touting SHRP as having the finest dirt surface in the country, has offered to 'pony up' $2MM in purse money to have SHRP host a match race between Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta. Winner would get $1.2MM and loser would get $800k. Suggested date was Oct. 3rd.
Early Response: SHRP Track Manager, Andrea Young, indicated openness to hosting the match race. Initial reaction from Zenyatta camp's Racing Manager: not too interested. Initial reaction from R.A. camp: No contact was established prior to this story going to print.
My thoughts (assuming both horses' owners would even consider it) - How great a "match" race could it be between two outstanding horses of such disparate styles of running? One horse has front end speed and a quick turn of foot early up to at least 1 1/8th; the other is something of a come from the clouds closer that can seeminly mow down G-1 competition of any gender on synthetic but really needs 9 furlongs or more to get up to top speed? Could Z press the pace enough to make it competitive at the finish against RA? If RA slowed down to match Z's pace would she still be fresh enough to power out ahead in the stretch? Is there enough track to work with to get a true 'contest'? Not sure SHRP's track configuration would be fair to Z. unless they come by the Grandstand twice - which makes it a 3 turn race - something of an oddity in itsself here in the States. On the 'commercial' side why would you as a facilities manager be open to 'hosting' an event that requires the same overhead/staffing as a full blown race card when there is only 2 minutes of actual entertainment to ocurr (currently SHRP website's calendar shows no live racing after Aug 29th so I'm guessing this 'two horse/one race' sporting event would be a stand alone event held after the AQHA Meet is finished)? Maybe get a concert scheduled in to give your moneys' worth & to keep at least some of the patrons hanging around buying beers/etc. if not betting on simulcast?? (Hey Mac - George Strait would pack them in!) Why pick a date at SHRP that puts the event at odds with Retama's racing schedule - do we really need one track to be poaching the action from another within the state of Texas? Wouldn't the TRC have to approve this one day "meet" as an extraordinary action?
Typical "Mac" - the modern day marketing impressario has managed to cop some great free 'publicity' floating up an idea that while seductive on the surface - and while sounding perfectly reasonable to everyday fans of horse racing - is full of holes. While I do appreciate his 'out of the box' boldness of vision and his support/involvement in racing locally; it would be refreshing if - just once - he trial ballooned one of these ideas with others involved in the local/state horse racing scene and came up with something that didn't seem so half baked.
Personally - to make such a match-up truly interesting I'd like to see Mine That Bird, Summer Bird and I Want Revenge invited to the party and to schedule this at least a month after the Breeders Cup. Then you'd have the best '3YO's of 2009 up against the best/undefeated 4YO mare, you'd have the boys v. the girls angle and the youthful stars v. the seasoned campaigner. They'd all be on the SHRP surface - which is an outstanding dirt surface - for the first time, so no local advantage there AND you'd avoid the imbalance of the matchup between Z and RA - you'd have to closers in Z and MTB, two capable front end speedsters in IWR and RA and two stalkers in SB and RA.....AND not so many individuals to really impede anyone's trip in a big way. Now that I think might be a truly historic and interesting race!!
Jim "Mattress Mac" MacIngvale, touting SHRP as having the finest dirt surface in the country, has offered to 'pony up' $2MM in purse money to have SHRP host a match race between Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta. Winner would get $1.2MM and loser would get $800k. Suggested date was Oct. 3rd.
Early Response: SHRP Track Manager, Andrea Young, indicated openness to hosting the match race. Initial reaction from Zenyatta camp's Racing Manager: not too interested. Initial reaction from R.A. camp: No contact was established prior to this story going to print.
My thoughts (assuming both horses' owners would even consider it) - How great a "match" race could it be between two outstanding horses of such disparate styles of running? One horse has front end speed and a quick turn of foot early up to at least 1 1/8th; the other is something of a come from the clouds closer that can seeminly mow down G-1 competition of any gender on synthetic but really needs 9 furlongs or more to get up to top speed? Could Z press the pace enough to make it competitive at the finish against RA? If RA slowed down to match Z's pace would she still be fresh enough to power out ahead in the stretch? Is there enough track to work with to get a true 'contest'? Not sure SHRP's track configuration would be fair to Z. unless they come by the Grandstand twice - which makes it a 3 turn race - something of an oddity in itsself here in the States. On the 'commercial' side why would you as a facilities manager be open to 'hosting' an event that requires the same overhead/staffing as a full blown race card when there is only 2 minutes of actual entertainment to ocurr (currently SHRP website's calendar shows no live racing after Aug 29th so I'm guessing this 'two horse/one race' sporting event would be a stand alone event held after the AQHA Meet is finished)? Maybe get a concert scheduled in to give your moneys' worth & to keep at least some of the patrons hanging around buying beers/etc. if not betting on simulcast?? (Hey Mac - George Strait would pack them in!) Why pick a date at SHRP that puts the event at odds with Retama's racing schedule - do we really need one track to be poaching the action from another within the state of Texas? Wouldn't the TRC have to approve this one day "meet" as an extraordinary action?
Typical "Mac" - the modern day marketing impressario has managed to cop some great free 'publicity' floating up an idea that while seductive on the surface - and while sounding perfectly reasonable to everyday fans of horse racing - is full of holes. While I do appreciate his 'out of the box' boldness of vision and his support/involvement in racing locally; it would be refreshing if - just once - he trial ballooned one of these ideas with others involved in the local/state horse racing scene and came up with something that didn't seem so half baked.
Personally - to make such a match-up truly interesting I'd like to see Mine That Bird, Summer Bird and I Want Revenge invited to the party and to schedule this at least a month after the Breeders Cup. Then you'd have the best '3YO's of 2009 up against the best/undefeated 4YO mare, you'd have the boys v. the girls angle and the youthful stars v. the seasoned campaigner. They'd all be on the SHRP surface - which is an outstanding dirt surface - for the first time, so no local advantage there AND you'd avoid the imbalance of the matchup between Z and RA - you'd have to closers in Z and MTB, two capable front end speedsters in IWR and RA and two stalkers in SB and RA.....AND not so many individuals to really impede anyone's trip in a big way. Now that I think might be a truly historic and interesting race!!
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keyranch
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Progress in our quest. We are looking at Oklahoma, Arizonia, and New York at this time. It has become apparent that it helps to be familiar with the state to begin with.
Who has connections in Virginia? Colonial purses are definately impacted by the northern Virginia OTB's. Remember the economic impact on the state and industry are keys to getting the attention we need.
Who has connections in Virginia? Colonial purses are definately impacted by the northern Virginia OTB's. Remember the economic impact on the state and industry are keys to getting the attention we need.
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going4stamina
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If slots were forgotten, how much would online gambling on (TX race product only) benefit the state coffers, the horse and dog tracks, and owners, trainers, etc. (are there even any dog tracks left in TX?).
I am in Dallas, but it is quite a drive to go to Lone Star...I like to go in person, but would go same # of times in person, but wager more often, if I could bet on Texas TB races from home. Sorry, can't go for sure on a weeknight and have to fit in kids activities on weekends, but want to support the TX races. Have also been to SH and Retama and would also bet those. They have given a very limited pool of patrons for these tracks by denying online gambling. It hurts the entire Texas Industry and State coffers--maybe they could finish I-35 in my lifetime with the new funds!!!!!
If the legislature won't allow online gambling on a National front, maybe they would allow it only on a state-wide basis and there could be a TX owned entity that could run the operation? Or, even better, a TX based online gambling that also provided a % of revenue back to TX purses for ALL bets made, regardless of track location. Maybe TTA owned and operated?
I think that should be sought after as slots have too much opposition.
In lieu of that, OTBs.
I could care less about one armed bandits, not for or against as I am not interested. But I am interested in seeing quality racing and higher purses come back to TX and seeing horsemen able to make a living.
I am in Dallas, but it is quite a drive to go to Lone Star...I like to go in person, but would go same # of times in person, but wager more often, if I could bet on Texas TB races from home. Sorry, can't go for sure on a weeknight and have to fit in kids activities on weekends, but want to support the TX races. Have also been to SH and Retama and would also bet those. They have given a very limited pool of patrons for these tracks by denying online gambling. It hurts the entire Texas Industry and State coffers--maybe they could finish I-35 in my lifetime with the new funds!!!!!
If the legislature won't allow online gambling on a National front, maybe they would allow it only on a state-wide basis and there could be a TX owned entity that could run the operation? Or, even better, a TX based online gambling that also provided a % of revenue back to TX purses for ALL bets made, regardless of track location. Maybe TTA owned and operated?
I think that should be sought after as slots have too much opposition.
In lieu of that, OTBs.
I could care less about one armed bandits, not for or against as I am not interested. But I am interested in seeing quality racing and higher purses come back to TX and seeing horsemen able to make a living.
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keyranch
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Yes, Thanks for the comment. Computer wagering has to be part of the package. We Del, IBM, and TI in the state, how hard can it be to get a joint venture going to sell the Texas racing signal in Texas. How much money are we leaving on the table over this? We should be able to take our product to the people. We have to show the economic impact to Texas and the to the Industry.
Another suggestion that requires some thought, is an alliance with the lottery commission to accept wagers through their machines. The lottery is looking for more revenue sources and we are looking for creative partners that can get something done. The racetracks proved without any doubt that their interest is only in what is in the best interest of their track.
For all of us mushrooms, it is important to discover and share the information. Shed some light on the enormous potential of Texas racing and economic development that has been bled out the last ten years. Keep the money home and keep the horses home.
Another suggestion that requires some thought, is an alliance with the lottery commission to accept wagers through their machines. The lottery is looking for more revenue sources and we are looking for creative partners that can get something done. The racetracks proved without any doubt that their interest is only in what is in the best interest of their track.
For all of us mushrooms, it is important to discover and share the information. Shed some light on the enormous potential of Texas racing and economic development that has been bled out the last ten years. Keep the money home and keep the horses home.
I certainly support the on-line betting option. It would be a way for Texans to support our racing that is already tied to the two horse racing TV channels -- we get little coverage compared to other venues because we can't bet on their sites. It hurts us two ways, publicity for our racing and betting revenues. In a state as large as Texas, it is not really possible for many people to get to a racetrack to place a bet. We need to join the 21st century on this. All they have to do is take one little word out of the legislation, "live."
I also think it would be great to be able to somehow make a wager through all the lottery outlets. I'm not sure how it would work, but it also would be at least accessible for people. I can gamble on the lottery at the gas station on my street -- so, the idea that I need to be protected from temptation is foolish.
Bedouwia
I also think it would be great to be able to somehow make a wager through all the lottery outlets. I'm not sure how it would work, but it also would be at least accessible for people. I can gamble on the lottery at the gas station on my street -- so, the idea that I need to be protected from temptation is foolish.
Bedouwia
****current discussion interruption****
Could any of you TX ppl email me about the workers comp scenario in Texas? I really am thinking about Retama Park for a few month excursion but I can't find anything on any of the sites about trainers having workers comp. Here in VA since I did it all and never had 3 or more employees I did not need it.
Thanks and sorry for the break in.
[email protected]
Could any of you TX ppl email me about the workers comp scenario in Texas? I really am thinking about Retama Park for a few month excursion but I can't find anything on any of the sites about trainers having workers comp. Here in VA since I did it all and never had 3 or more employees I did not need it.
Thanks and sorry for the break in.
[email protected]
trying to come up with something brillant..... this may take a while.
spex4me wrote:****current discussion interruption****
Could any of you TX ppl email me about the workers comp scenario in Texas? I really am thinking about Retama Park for a few month excursion but I can't find anything on any of the sites about trainers having workers comp. Here in VA since I did it all and never had 3 or more employees I did not need it.
Thanks and sorry for the break in.
[email protected]
You don't have to have it here in Texas, you need to check on stalls, the last I heard, they are booked until 8/24, if some don't get filled he may open them up. May is determined by the quality of your stable I think. Come on down.
Loving God, Loving People and Serving = Peace and Happiness
Try it you will like it.
Try it you will like it.
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keyranch
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Visitor from VA, could you tell us about the OTB system in VA. My impression is that the track is away from the population bases and they built some upscale OTB's in the populated areas to get enough handle to operate Colonial.
The Oklahoma OTB system is a bit more complicated than I thought. Remington Park has six OTB's in its network. Four are in the greater OKC area, One is in a hotel, and the others are in pubs or sports bars. The problem is that many of the Indian Casinos have OTB's and the other tracks do to. I think I will concentrate on the OKC revenue so I can extrapolate it out by population.
I will make a few calls and pass along any progress.
The Oklahoma OTB system is a bit more complicated than I thought. Remington Park has six OTB's in its network. Four are in the greater OKC area, One is in a hotel, and the others are in pubs or sports bars. The problem is that many of the Indian Casinos have OTB's and the other tracks do to. I think I will concentrate on the OKC revenue so I can extrapolate it out by population.
I will make a few calls and pass along any progress.