We are looking at a horse farm in Paris, KY (Central Kentucky) and wondered whether anyone had a general estimate of what good 4-panel wood fencing costs (installed) as well as what to expect to install automatic waterers into some of the fields? There is a water hydrant within about 100-200 feet of one of the fields, but I don't have a real sense of what is typical for labor.
Also, what is a good rule of thumb for constructing good (but not over-the-top) stalls in an old tobacco barn? The barn has posts separated 12 feet apart and has a great foundation for easy building of them, but again, labor and supplies are my biggest question.
This site has always been incredible wealth of knowledge for these sorts of questions in the past!
Thanks, Mark
Horse Farm Questions
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Shammy Davis
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This is not going to be much help, but I can tell you from experience that material and labor cost varies greatly from contractor to contractor in farm areas. Get references from building supply houses, real estate offices, and other farms before venturing into extensive renovations. Then get as many estimates from the top referrals as you can. No one knows a rural area like those who live in it, although as I remember Paris isn't too rural anymore. I live in a county that doesn't even have a stop light in its 500 sq miles. Speeds things up but you have to go a long way to get to the store. Best wishes -Shammy 
Hi, I am in Louisville, not Paris, but here for good 4-board fence you can expect to pay at least four bucks a linear foot if you want dress boards. More if you want it painted.
Running waterlines is easy, it would be the electric that would be hard/really expensive if you want heated troughs. I would estimate based on hiring the labor, renting the Ditch Witch and assembling the materials myself. I did a French drain around my barn for $250 including hired labor, materials, etc., that is about 200 ft long, and I only used the Ditch Witch for 1 hr (it was an 8-hr rental). You can get regular $10/hr sort of guys for this, running a Ditch Witch and gluing PVC pipe together is not rocket science, and I wouldn't even think about trying to use copper for those kind of waterlines. If you already had a tractor, filling the ditches back in is really fast with a front end loader.
Regarding stalls, my personal experience is you are way better off dealing with a sawmill for rough-cut hardwood (you will save a ton of money and hardwood does not shatter when a horse kicks it, plus they LOVE the taste of pine and pressure treated). In your barn you can run three stringers, one at the top, one in the middle and one on the bottom of 2x12, 4 ft apart, then put your wall planks vertically. I ordered 2xrandomx8 for mine, you could use 1x if you plan to double-wall. Sawmill hardwood will run you about $200 a stall if you use metal grills and doors on tracks (allow another $150 or so per stall for that, more if you want hay/feed access doors). You can estimate two guys will spend a whole day building each stall, and you want pretty good carpenters who will use a level on each board and dress the stalls out perfect ($20/hr per guy/gal). A generous budget would be $1K per stall. One very cool feature in my barn is a two-gang electric outlet in the ceiling, one plug on each switch so the fan can be separate from the fluorescent light in the stall. Will definitely copy that in my next barn. You don't always want them turned on at the same time and it is a HUGE pain to drag out a ladder each time you want to unplug the fan (winter) or the light (every night in the summer). Since it is a tobacco barn, you may want to consider having filler planks cut and installed on the exterior, at least for where the horses are, to keep it warmer in the winter. You can run any additional joists you need to put a plywood floor/ceiling in and create a hay loft, which will help keep the barn warmer in winter and give you hay storage. Cost of that would depend on the size of the barn. Hey good luck and if you need help, holler.
Madelyn
Running waterlines is easy, it would be the electric that would be hard/really expensive if you want heated troughs. I would estimate based on hiring the labor, renting the Ditch Witch and assembling the materials myself. I did a French drain around my barn for $250 including hired labor, materials, etc., that is about 200 ft long, and I only used the Ditch Witch for 1 hr (it was an 8-hr rental). You can get regular $10/hr sort of guys for this, running a Ditch Witch and gluing PVC pipe together is not rocket science, and I wouldn't even think about trying to use copper for those kind of waterlines. If you already had a tractor, filling the ditches back in is really fast with a front end loader.
Regarding stalls, my personal experience is you are way better off dealing with a sawmill for rough-cut hardwood (you will save a ton of money and hardwood does not shatter when a horse kicks it, plus they LOVE the taste of pine and pressure treated). In your barn you can run three stringers, one at the top, one in the middle and one on the bottom of 2x12, 4 ft apart, then put your wall planks vertically. I ordered 2xrandomx8 for mine, you could use 1x if you plan to double-wall. Sawmill hardwood will run you about $200 a stall if you use metal grills and doors on tracks (allow another $150 or so per stall for that, more if you want hay/feed access doors). You can estimate two guys will spend a whole day building each stall, and you want pretty good carpenters who will use a level on each board and dress the stalls out perfect ($20/hr per guy/gal). A generous budget would be $1K per stall. One very cool feature in my barn is a two-gang electric outlet in the ceiling, one plug on each switch so the fan can be separate from the fluorescent light in the stall. Will definitely copy that in my next barn. You don't always want them turned on at the same time and it is a HUGE pain to drag out a ladder each time you want to unplug the fan (winter) or the light (every night in the summer). Since it is a tobacco barn, you may want to consider having filler planks cut and installed on the exterior, at least for where the horses are, to keep it warmer in the winter. You can run any additional joists you need to put a plywood floor/ceiling in and create a hay loft, which will help keep the barn warmer in winter and give you hay storage. Cost of that would depend on the size of the barn. Hey good luck and if you need help, holler.
Madelyn
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
thanks, I hope it helps!
mark,
I was thinking of the idea of the tobacco barn and it does have some good advantages, ventilation. The disadvantages are vertical space waste. Somehow you got to get your hay up in top of that thing, but I love the ventilation of the old tobacco barns for the hay and the horses.
Good luck with the whole effort, we'd like to see some pictures along the way. You could also hang some tobacco in the top and sell some cigars too.
I was thinking of the idea of the tobacco barn and it does have some good advantages, ventilation. The disadvantages are vertical space waste. Somehow you got to get your hay up in top of that thing, but I love the ventilation of the old tobacco barns for the hay and the horses.
Good luck with the whole effort, we'd like to see some pictures along the way. You could also hang some tobacco in the top and sell some cigars too.
They had an article in Thoroughbred Times about the advantages of converting a tobacco barn to a horse barn several years ago. If you know someone with a stack of the mags aroud, you might be able to dig it up.
Just as a side note, John Clark told one story about Nellie Morse, the last filly to win the Preakness. Seems when she was foaled, the place where she and her dam were being kept had the pair in a field full of various types of junk -- not exactly a safe environment for a young foal. The owner checked out the situation, was duly horrified, and as a result the mare and foal were moved into an old tobacco barn. Nice and safe, but apparently they weren't brought out much and young Nellie Morse got very little opportunity to run and play like a normal youngster. The owner figured his hothoused filly wouldn't amount to much, so he put her into a yearling sale. She wound up in the hands of a fellow who had the reputation of being a "butcher" trainer and ended up running 22 times as a juvenile, winning a couple of important stakes. The followng year, she won the Pimlico Oaks and the Preakness before her constitution or her interest in racing finally gave way. Through her champion daughter Nellie Flag, she founded one of Calumet Farm's best families.
Just as a side note, John Clark told one story about Nellie Morse, the last filly to win the Preakness. Seems when she was foaled, the place where she and her dam were being kept had the pair in a field full of various types of junk -- not exactly a safe environment for a young foal. The owner checked out the situation, was duly horrified, and as a result the mare and foal were moved into an old tobacco barn. Nice and safe, but apparently they weren't brought out much and young Nellie Morse got very little opportunity to run and play like a normal youngster. The owner figured his hothoused filly wouldn't amount to much, so he put her into a yearling sale. She wound up in the hands of a fellow who had the reputation of being a "butcher" trainer and ended up running 22 times as a juvenile, winning a couple of important stakes. The followng year, she won the Pimlico Oaks and the Preakness before her constitution or her interest in racing finally gave way. Through her champion daughter Nellie Flag, she founded one of Calumet Farm's best families.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
fence
You may consider using 14 ft boards for your fence.
You use a few more posts but the fence is stronger and the 14 ft boards are half the price of the 16 ft.
I use rough oak it makes a stronger fence and they wont chew it much if any.
Pete
You use a few more posts but the fence is stronger and the 14 ft boards are half the price of the 16 ft.
I use rough oak it makes a stronger fence and they wont chew it much if any.
Pete
hi marknicholas
You wrote that you "...wondered whether anyone had a general estimate of what good 4-panel wood fencing costs (installed)..."
The labor is one cost...but I suggest you consider the following.
I recommend that you inquire about not only the the prices and quality of the materials...but also about (the often overlooked) variations in the dimensions of the materials (posts and boards) available...that you might not be aware of. For example...many (what might be referred to as) "standard" wood fence boards (assuming that is what you intend to use) are represented as 1"x6"x16' boards. And it might be fair to say that many buyers probably take it for granted that 1"x6"x16' boards are created equal. Reality is...often final dimensions of boards may vary (sometimes significantly) depending on which mill produced them. For example: what is represented as a "standard" 1"x6"x16' board might really be approx 7/8"x5 3/4"x16'3"+- (and dimensions can vary from mill to mill).
With that in mind...I recommend that you inquire about what is sometimes referred to as "export quality" boards. You might find that the dimensions of the "export quality" boards are often more substantial than a "standard" board...althought they would still be considered a 1'x6'x16' board.
The "export quality" board" (or whatever your supplier and/or mill may call it) is often more likely to be a sturdier...fuller-cut board. For example: something like a 1 1/'8" thick x 6 1/4" wide x 16'3"+- board. Certainly the dimensions may vary from mill to mill (that is the nature of the beast)...but the point is that the "export quality" board is often at least a bit thicker and a bit wider than a "standard" over-the-counter (for lack of a better description) board...and is probably straighter.
The "export quality" board is basically referred to with that "nickname" because the exporters want to make sure that the boards will stand up to the buyer's scrutiny at the final destination (often overseas)...particularly since refusing the product and returning it is rarely (if ever) an option for the overseas buyer. And since most overseas shipments of this nature are prepaid...and the sellers/suppliers/exporters want to minimize the possibility of problems while at the same time maximizing the possibility of reorders from overseas buyers...Voila... the "export quality" board is created. A fuller cut...a straighter cut...and a product with less defects (including fewer twists in the lumber etc) than the more typical 1"x6"x16' "standard" board.
Export quality boards (which may not only look better but also may last longer) often cost a bit more (for obvious reasons) than "standard" boards...but may be worthy of your serious consideration and might possibly be a wise direction to go...All Things Considered.
Respectfully
You wrote that you "...wondered whether anyone had a general estimate of what good 4-panel wood fencing costs (installed)..."
The labor is one cost...but I suggest you consider the following.
I recommend that you inquire about not only the the prices and quality of the materials...but also about (the often overlooked) variations in the dimensions of the materials (posts and boards) available...that you might not be aware of. For example...many (what might be referred to as) "standard" wood fence boards (assuming that is what you intend to use) are represented as 1"x6"x16' boards. And it might be fair to say that many buyers probably take it for granted that 1"x6"x16' boards are created equal. Reality is...often final dimensions of boards may vary (sometimes significantly) depending on which mill produced them. For example: what is represented as a "standard" 1"x6"x16' board might really be approx 7/8"x5 3/4"x16'3"+- (and dimensions can vary from mill to mill).
With that in mind...I recommend that you inquire about what is sometimes referred to as "export quality" boards. You might find that the dimensions of the "export quality" boards are often more substantial than a "standard" board...althought they would still be considered a 1'x6'x16' board.
The "export quality" board" (or whatever your supplier and/or mill may call it) is often more likely to be a sturdier...fuller-cut board. For example: something like a 1 1/'8" thick x 6 1/4" wide x 16'3"+- board. Certainly the dimensions may vary from mill to mill (that is the nature of the beast)...but the point is that the "export quality" board is often at least a bit thicker and a bit wider than a "standard" over-the-counter (for lack of a better description) board...and is probably straighter.
The "export quality" board is basically referred to with that "nickname" because the exporters want to make sure that the boards will stand up to the buyer's scrutiny at the final destination (often overseas)...particularly since refusing the product and returning it is rarely (if ever) an option for the overseas buyer. And since most overseas shipments of this nature are prepaid...and the sellers/suppliers/exporters want to minimize the possibility of problems while at the same time maximizing the possibility of reorders from overseas buyers...Voila... the "export quality" board is created. A fuller cut...a straighter cut...and a product with less defects (including fewer twists in the lumber etc) than the more typical 1"x6"x16' "standard" board.
Export quality boards (which may not only look better but also may last longer) often cost a bit more (for obvious reasons) than "standard" boards...but may be worthy of your serious consideration and might possibly be a wise direction to go...All Things Considered.
Respectfully
hi marknicholas
You wrote that you "...wondered whether anyone had a general estimate of what good 4-panel wood fencing costs (installed)..."
The labor is one cost...but I suggest you consider the following.
I recommend that you inquire about not only the the prices and quality of the materials...but also about (the often overlooked) variations in the dimensions of the materials (posts and boards) available...that you might not be aware of. For example...many (what might be referred to as) "standard" wood fence boards (assuming that is what you intend to use) are represented as 1"x6"x16' boards. And it might be fair to say that many buyers probably take it for granted that 1"x6"x16' boards are created equal. Reality is...often final dimensions of boards may vary (sometimes significantly) depending on which mill produced them. For example: what is represented as a "standard" 1"x6"x16' board might really be approx 7/8"x5 3/4"x16'3"+- (and dimensions can vary from mill to mill).
With that in mind...I recommend that you inquire about what is sometimes referred to as "export quality" boards. You might find that the dimensions of the "export quality" boards are often more substantial than a "standard" board...althought they would still be considered a 1'x6'x16' board.
The "export quality" board" (or whatever your supplier and/or mill may call it) is often more likely to be a sturdier...fuller-cut board. For example: something like a 1 1/'8" thick x 6 1/4" wide x 16'3"+- board. Certainly the dimensions may vary from mill to mill (that is the nature of the beast)...but the point is that the "export quality" board is often at least a bit thicker and a bit wider than a "standard" over-the-counter (for lack of a better description) board...and is probably straighter.
The "export quality" board is basically referred to with that "nickname" because the exporters want to make sure that the boards will stand up to the buyer's scrutiny at the final destination (often overseas)...particularly since refusing the product and returning it is rarely (if ever) an option for the overseas buyer. And since most overseas shipments of this nature are prepaid...and the sellers/suppliers/exporters want to minimize the possibility of problems while at the same time maximizing the possibility of reorders from overseas buyers...Voila... the "export quality" board is created. A fuller cut...a straighter cut...and a product with less defects (including fewer twists in the lumber etc) than the more typical 1"x6"x16' "standard" board.
Export quality boards (which may not only look better but also may last longer) often cost a bit more (for obvious reasons) than "standard" boards...but may be worthy of your serious consideration and might possibly be a wise direction to go...All Things Considered.
Respectfully
You wrote that you "...wondered whether anyone had a general estimate of what good 4-panel wood fencing costs (installed)..."
The labor is one cost...but I suggest you consider the following.
I recommend that you inquire about not only the the prices and quality of the materials...but also about (the often overlooked) variations in the dimensions of the materials (posts and boards) available...that you might not be aware of. For example...many (what might be referred to as) "standard" wood fence boards (assuming that is what you intend to use) are represented as 1"x6"x16' boards. And it might be fair to say that many buyers probably take it for granted that 1"x6"x16' boards are created equal. Reality is...often final dimensions of boards may vary (sometimes significantly) depending on which mill produced them. For example: what is represented as a "standard" 1"x6"x16' board might really be approx 7/8"x5 3/4"x16'3"+- (and dimensions can vary from mill to mill).
With that in mind...I recommend that you inquire about what is sometimes referred to as "export quality" boards. You might find that the dimensions of the "export quality" boards are often more substantial than a "standard" board...althought they would still be considered a 1'x6'x16' board.
The "export quality" board" (or whatever your supplier and/or mill may call it) is often more likely to be a sturdier...fuller-cut board. For example: something like a 1 1/'8" thick x 6 1/4" wide x 16'3"+- board. Certainly the dimensions may vary from mill to mill (that is the nature of the beast)...but the point is that the "export quality" board is often at least a bit thicker and a bit wider than a "standard" over-the-counter (for lack of a better description) board...and is probably straighter.
The "export quality" board is basically referred to with that "nickname" because the exporters want to make sure that the boards will stand up to the buyer's scrutiny at the final destination (often overseas)...particularly since refusing the product and returning it is rarely (if ever) an option for the overseas buyer. And since most overseas shipments of this nature are prepaid...and the sellers/suppliers/exporters want to minimize the possibility of problems while at the same time maximizing the possibility of reorders from overseas buyers...Voila... the "export quality" board is created. A fuller cut...a straighter cut...and a product with less defects (including fewer twists in the lumber etc) than the more typical 1"x6"x16' "standard" board.
Export quality boards (which may not only look better but also may last longer) often cost a bit more (for obvious reasons) than "standard" boards...but may be worthy of your serious consideration and might possibly be a wise direction to go...All Things Considered.
Respectfully