You are right, JRGators, and we both saw this coming. The first stone was cast into this fracas many months ago, and the responding fusillades have gotten nastier with each counter barrage. Everyone has a fundamental right to express his opinion, and if opinions, on either side, are born of ignorance or spite or jealousness of prerogative, then no good will come of it. Throwers of stones, a great man once implied, should examine their own faults and motives before lambasting someone in whose shoes they haven't walked. Texas horseracing will not benefit from divisiveness amongst horsemen, particularly at this crucial time. I am no longer going to try to reason with stone throwers who won’t examine both sides of an issue while accusing good-intentioned colleagues of malfeasance. I simply am not going to do any more business with them, no matter how dazzling and fast are my foals from their studs from previous breedings.
It’s a matter of principle.
Fini, and I mean fini!
Ajo
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jrgators
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Ajo wrote:You are right, JRGators, and we both saw this coming. The first stone was cast into this fracas many months ago, and the responding fusillades have gotten nastier with each counter barrage. Everyone has a fundamental right to express his opinion, and if opinions, on either side, are born of ignorance or spite or jealousness of prerogative, then no good will come of it. Throwers of stones, a great man once implied, should examine their own faults and motives before lambasting someone in whose shoes they haven't walked. Texas horseracing will not benefit from divisiveness amongst horsemen, particularly at this crucial time. I am no longer going to try to reason with stone throwers who won’t examine both sides of an issue while accusing good-intentioned colleagues of malfeasance. I simply am not going to do any more business with them, no matter how dazzling and fast are my foals from their studs from previous breedings.
It’s a matter of principle.
Fini, and I mean fini!
Ajo
Ok, it's 515AM, and I'll bite.....opinions born of ignorance. Yep I agree with that COMPLETELY! I just think we'd disagree on which opinions are based on ignorance. There is another word pulsating in my small brain, and that's absolutely ARROGANCE! The...I want to use your statement..."Throwers of stones should examine their own faults and motives before lambasting someone in whose shoes they haven't walked." This too is true, but would that be that I'm the only one who was "lambasted" for a $14.00 bill that I was NEVER made aware of prior to the meeting in Houston?
No longer trying to reason...you are FAR from the only one feeling that way! How does one reason with an passionate opposing view? Person 1 feels that they are completely right on the issue, Person 2 feels that they are completely right on the issue, and these 2 wonderful folks are on OPPOSITE ends of the issue! How does that not result in 2 people disagreeing with each other??
I have tried to speak with those who disagree with me, and I get 1 of 4 things,
1. No response
2. Rhetoric ( i.e. Slots will pass, we have a plan B, Joe is not trustworthy, etc.)
3. Attempts to be "recruited" to the other side
4. I get told how I'm out to DESTROY TEXAS RACING!
This is all nonsense Ajo, and you know it just like I know it. The bottom line, the ellitest in Texas racing can't imagine that an Okie, and the gay guy with a $14.00 bill would actually have the nerve to feel like they can make a difference, that they can speak, and they are NOT on ANY of the precious Texas boards!
Oh yeah, I posted it, but that $14.00 has been paid!
Theophilus Scales, Jr.
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jrgators
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Ajo wrote:You are right, JRGators, and we both saw this coming. The first stone was cast into this fracas many months ago, and the responding fusillades have gotten nastier with each counter barrage. Everyone has a fundamental right to express his opinion, and if opinions, on either side, are born of ignorance or spite or jealousness of prerogative, then no good will come of it. Throwers of stones, a great man once implied, should examine their own faults and motives before lambasting someone in whose shoes they haven't walked. Texas horseracing will not benefit from divisiveness amongst horsemen, particularly at this crucial time. I am no longer going to try to reason with stone throwers who won’t examine both sides of an issue while accusing good-intentioned colleagues of malfeasance. I simply am not going to do any more business with them, no matter how dazzling and fast are my foals from their studs from previous breedings.
It’s a matter of principle.
Fini, and I mean fini!
Ajo
Ok, it's 515AM, and I'll bite.....opinions born of ignorance. Yep I agree with that COMPLETELY! I just think we'd disagree on which opinions are based on ignorance. There is another word pulsating in my small brain, and that's absolutely ARROGANCE! The...I want to use your statement..."Throwers of stones should examine their own faults and motives before lambasting someone in whose shoes they haven't walked." This too is true, but would that be that I'm the only one who was "lambasted" for a $14.00 bill that I was NEVER made aware of prior to the meeting in Houston?
No longer trying to reason...you are FAR from the only one feeling that way! How does one reason with an passionate opposing view? Person 1 feels that they are completely right on the issue, Person 2 feels that they are completely right on the issue, and these 2 wonderful folks are on OPPOSITE ends of the issue! How does that not result in 2 people disagreeing with each other??
I have tried to speak with those who disagree with me, and I get 1 of 4 things,
1. No response
2. Rhetoric ( i.e. Slots will pass, we have a plan B, Joe is not trustworthy, etc.)
3. Attempts to be "recruited" to the other side
4. I get told how I'm out to DESTROY TEXAS RACING!
This is all nonsense Ajo, and you know it just like I know it. The bottom line, the ellitest in Texas racing can't imagine that an Okie, and the gay guy with a $14.00 bill would actually have the nerve to feel like they can make a difference, that they can speak, and they are NOT on ANY of the precious Texas boards!
Oh yeah, I posted it, but that $14.00 has been paid!
Theophilus Scales, Jr.
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keyranch
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I think we are all confused. There is no need for any more foals no matter how fast they are with a 60 day only meet and with not additional purse revenue!
Why do you not want to improve the purses by more than 50% for the horsemen? How indebted to the slots or nothing agenda are you folks that you will attack any reasonable solution to our problem and the people that are willing to stand up for all the horsemen? Have you even bothered to call to ask what impact our initiatives would have on the industry?
Again and again, in the survey about support for VLT's, the question should have been-now that you have waited for the first 10 years with no plan B-how many years or decades are you willing or able to wait for slots to pass?
These policys have already put many farms, familys, trainers, and horsemen out of bussiness and it does not have an impact or create change for the associations. We are not rewriting history-we are going to legislators and asking for help and change. The comments on these forums are pleads for change from our elected horsemens representatives in a public forum since the public meetings appear to be a thing of the past for open debate. We believe folks are purposely kept in the dark and it appears that trend will continue, we have searched and have not been able to find the good of Texas measures supported by the associations in their legislative efforts and have not got a straight answer as to what they are or if they exist.
In the TRC transcripts, which we refer to often simply because testimony was under oath, it was very clear the opinion of associations on the efforts of a few to keep some semblance of a race schedule. The commissioner stated that the meetings would show the horsemen were being represented. The problem with that was that the minority of horsemen were being represented that were willing and able to continue with only one sixty day meet!
Where in these statements are the personal attacks on your bussiness and livelihood and where are the posters with your bussiness phone number on it posted? The statements made on these forums are repetitive, I will grant you that! They has been no willingness of the address the concerns on the TTHBPA side so far. The TTA to its credit has added more information to its website and has actually started a dialogue concerning the distribution of ATB awards. They may be slow to react, but there are a couple of board members that have taken the time to listen and address the common ground concerns. It is unfortunate that they will be drug back into this because of their involvement in the race dates debate etc., but that was not our choice!
We are not going to agree on the slots or nothing agenda, but we had an understanding that we would support slots if it became an option, if the associations and tracks would not be trying to destroy our attempt at a plan B. As far as we are concerned that did not last long and from the Gary West article to now the attempt at intimidation through a bogus libel suit, the efforts to discredit us in front of the legislators is amped up!
We have talked to enough of the folks to understand that some actually believe the talking points of the slots or nothing agenda. That is fine, we do not care and know we can not change your mind and really do not want to deal with it. When you put it out on the public forum, you are asking for debate or other opinions we will not let it stand without comment, a one sided debate is not a debate it is just propaganda!
Why do you not want to improve the purses by more than 50% for the horsemen? How indebted to the slots or nothing agenda are you folks that you will attack any reasonable solution to our problem and the people that are willing to stand up for all the horsemen? Have you even bothered to call to ask what impact our initiatives would have on the industry?
Again and again, in the survey about support for VLT's, the question should have been-now that you have waited for the first 10 years with no plan B-how many years or decades are you willing or able to wait for slots to pass?
These policys have already put many farms, familys, trainers, and horsemen out of bussiness and it does not have an impact or create change for the associations. We are not rewriting history-we are going to legislators and asking for help and change. The comments on these forums are pleads for change from our elected horsemens representatives in a public forum since the public meetings appear to be a thing of the past for open debate. We believe folks are purposely kept in the dark and it appears that trend will continue, we have searched and have not been able to find the good of Texas measures supported by the associations in their legislative efforts and have not got a straight answer as to what they are or if they exist.
In the TRC transcripts, which we refer to often simply because testimony was under oath, it was very clear the opinion of associations on the efforts of a few to keep some semblance of a race schedule. The commissioner stated that the meetings would show the horsemen were being represented. The problem with that was that the minority of horsemen were being represented that were willing and able to continue with only one sixty day meet!
Where in these statements are the personal attacks on your bussiness and livelihood and where are the posters with your bussiness phone number on it posted? The statements made on these forums are repetitive, I will grant you that! They has been no willingness of the address the concerns on the TTHBPA side so far. The TTA to its credit has added more information to its website and has actually started a dialogue concerning the distribution of ATB awards. They may be slow to react, but there are a couple of board members that have taken the time to listen and address the common ground concerns. It is unfortunate that they will be drug back into this because of their involvement in the race dates debate etc., but that was not our choice!
We are not going to agree on the slots or nothing agenda, but we had an understanding that we would support slots if it became an option, if the associations and tracks would not be trying to destroy our attempt at a plan B. As far as we are concerned that did not last long and from the Gary West article to now the attempt at intimidation through a bogus libel suit, the efforts to discredit us in front of the legislators is amped up!
We have talked to enough of the folks to understand that some actually believe the talking points of the slots or nothing agenda. That is fine, we do not care and know we can not change your mind and really do not want to deal with it. When you put it out on the public forum, you are asking for debate or other opinions we will not let it stand without comment, a one sided debate is not a debate it is just propaganda!
Joe,I really hate that they have chosen this way to try and quieten us. After the nice phone call I got, I really felt that we may be on the road to working together as an industry.
For me this all got started at the TTA meeting in Salado years ago. We were all behind slots and the plan b that we were promised. In June we were told that plan b could not have gone any where so it was not pursued. I bought that. Two years later the same story and even though I'm a slow learner, I started having doubts. Let me think of a nice seldom used word. This jocularity is getting old. The trouble with us is we are tired of being the butt of the association's and tracks jokes It is very likely that there will be fewer racing dates next year even if we get slots and the industry as we know it will be gone.
For me this all got started at the TTA meeting in Salado years ago. We were all behind slots and the plan b that we were promised. In June we were told that plan b could not have gone any where so it was not pursued. I bought that. Two years later the same story and even though I'm a slow learner, I started having doubts. Let me think of a nice seldom used word. This jocularity is getting old. The trouble with us is we are tired of being the butt of the association's and tracks jokes It is very likely that there will be fewer racing dates next year even if we get slots and the industry as we know it will be gone.
Loving God, Loving People and Serving = Peace and Happiness
Try it you will like it.
Try it you will like it.
jrgators wrote:Word of the day....actually 2 words....LIBELOUS DRIVEL!
OK, I haven't posted in a while, been dealing with sick family member, but I do have a question that may not be able to be answered, but, I'll ask Ajo since he/she may actually know, my question is, how can I find a copy of the bylaws for the TTA, and the TTHBPA?
I'm not a member of, nor am I represented by the TTHBPA, but I'd like to educate myself more thoroughly prior to my becoming a member. I am also not a current member of the TTA my membership expired 01/08/11.
One more question....What's wrong with adults NOT agreeing on stuff? Folks really seem to be on edge because someone doesn't think they are doing a good job, or because folks have complaints. This is pretty astonishing in some regards, but I really don't get it. I completely disagree with different folks for different reasons, and I always think that healthy adult debate is good.
I don't like the way Charley makes Meatloaf! So that's libelous drivel? Or is when I tell him, I don't like his meatloaf?
I don't like when my abbie filly things she can strike at me when she's angry, and I let her know this with a shank, so is that libelous drivel?
There is a LOT of stuff that's happened/happening in these associations that I am currently NOT a member of that I don't agree with, and I have NO problems speaking my position. So that's libelous?? I don't like my ex-wife, and I'll give you a written guarantee that she doesn't like me!! So who's libelous for that? One of us or both?
I love to read this forum honestly, because it's sharing thoughts and ideas on issues that affect MEMBERS AND NON MEMBERS of the precious organizations! Those who agree with me they share their ideas, and those who don't, they do too!
It's really OK to disagree about stuff! It really is, and that's what makes America the greatest country on this planet! We can always share ideas, we can reach for common ground, and agree to disagree!
Last point....that kind of mentality is DANGEROUS in my opinion! Suppression of the masses? "Earn" a position to speak? Does that sound like the USA, or more like??....pick a country!
Thanks,
Theophilus Scales, Jr.
Theo,
As you know one thing I have pushed is transparancy and the need to share info with members. It was suggested to add a members page and I was fortunate enough to be included in helping with it. ( I must give Hedi huge props on this though) One thing we did add on the members page was the TTA bylaws, and the board minutes are soon to follow.
Below is the link and as always thanks for the opinion and participation on here.
http://www.texasthoroughbred.com/Deskto ... ?TabID=609
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keyranch
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Ajo, you are good folks and I am sorry you feel that way. I hope the babys become money makers and do great things for all of us involved. All I can say is that I can give you many examples of people I disagree with on the boards that I would not hesitate to send a horse to or refer one to for a client.
It would be interesting to know what you have been told about our efforts, you were at some of the TRC committee hearings and know we were presenting prepared race dates alternatives to the board! The negative comments came from the association side, not ours!
This is the puzzle and question from all of us, were you upset because we did not support the 60 day only meet, we submitted race dates calenders that the commission requested from the associations, or that a small group of horsemen was even heard outside of the associations?
We really do not know what warranted the postings at Retama Park or the search for our trainers or the star telegram articles, etc.! What was the unforgivable sin that we committed in the eyes of the TTHBPA!
Here is our current agenda in a nutshell, present to the legislators a plan to increase purses and state revenues as soon as possible. The crisis is here now, man made or not, it has to be addressed for immediate relief. The legislators are very willing to help the horsemen and we have not found a single one not willing to listen, offer advise and guidance, and give us time to present our ideas. In my opinion a good plan B has a very excellent chance of getting support from these legislators. You may be able and willing to continue with decreased racing opportunity in Texas, but my clients and then I will not be able to survive five more years of decline waiting for the statewide votes and lawsuits to be completed over slots!
It would be interesting to know what you have been told about our efforts, you were at some of the TRC committee hearings and know we were presenting prepared race dates alternatives to the board! The negative comments came from the association side, not ours!
This is the puzzle and question from all of us, were you upset because we did not support the 60 day only meet, we submitted race dates calenders that the commission requested from the associations, or that a small group of horsemen was even heard outside of the associations?
We really do not know what warranted the postings at Retama Park or the search for our trainers or the star telegram articles, etc.! What was the unforgivable sin that we committed in the eyes of the TTHBPA!
Here is our current agenda in a nutshell, present to the legislators a plan to increase purses and state revenues as soon as possible. The crisis is here now, man made or not, it has to be addressed for immediate relief. The legislators are very willing to help the horsemen and we have not found a single one not willing to listen, offer advise and guidance, and give us time to present our ideas. In my opinion a good plan B has a very excellent chance of getting support from these legislators. You may be able and willing to continue with decreased racing opportunity in Texas, but my clients and then I will not be able to survive five more years of decline waiting for the statewide votes and lawsuits to be completed over slots!
I've been thinking about some what if's.
Where would we be today if the "60 day meet had been approved? We would be looking at 6 months of no racing in Texas. Look at what 3 months of no racing in Texas has done to the entries at SH.
We are looking at very few mares getting bred as it is, what if we only had 600 races a year to run in. How many mares and stallions would we need?
Would we even need the TTA or the THP?
I'm afraid we are getting to those places as it stands.
Where would we be today if the "60 day meet had been approved? We would be looking at 6 months of no racing in Texas. Look at what 3 months of no racing in Texas has done to the entries at SH.
We are looking at very few mares getting bred as it is, what if we only had 600 races a year to run in. How many mares and stallions would we need?
Would we even need the TTA or the THP?
I'm afraid we are getting to those places as it stands.
Loving God, Loving People and Serving = Peace and Happiness
Try it you will like it.
Try it you will like it.
Saw this today. If you thinks slots are the answer, you are mistaken.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/ ... id=6099620
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/ ... id=6099620
Here is the article in toto. Bill Finley says the answer is to reduce racing dates. Is that what you want, Rick? I think not. Read carefully what this guy says, because it's an interesting opinion, and I question his perspective in spite of his respected reputation as a sports writer. In Texas, we have to be sure our horse gaming bills address the contingencies that have derailed dog racing and horse racing days in other states. This is why free-standing casinos have got to be kept out of the racing picture.
Say goodbye to slots gravy train?Email Print Comments6 By Bill Finley
Special to ESPN.com
Archive
The sport has had a nice run with slot machines, those gizmos that have fattened purses, made a lot of owners a lot of money and kept a dozen or so racetracks from closing. But the good times are about to end, and a lot sooner than you might have thought.
A system -- broke state governments allowing tens of millions in slots revenue to go to horse racing -- that could never last is starting to crumble. The first few weeks of 2011 have included some very ominous news for the slots-racing relationship and the future of horse racing.
It started in Indiana, where Governor Mitch Daniels blindsided the Thoroughbred and Standardbred industries last month when issuing a budget proposal that called for 43 percent of the slots money that was going to racing to instead go to the state's general fund. The budget must still go through several channels before being enacted and it can be changed after other state lawmakers are heard from, but industry sources said they were not confident there would be major changes forthcoming when it came to racing. With the vast majority of purse monies in Indiana coming from slots, Daniels' proposal could devastate the industry in the Hoosier State.
Indiana has long been the envy of other states, particularly slots-free Kentucky. Hoosier Park and Indiana Downs grew from minor-league racetracks to places offering top purses and stakes races that could attract the likes of Thoroughbred champion Lookin at Lucky. Once Daniels' axe is wielded, Indiana racing will likely be back to where it started and people who invested heavily in farms and breeding operations there will take a huge financial hit.
In Iowa, the target is dog racing. The casino company Harrah's, which owns a kennel club in Council Bluffs, is leading the fight to end dog racing in the state. In order to do so, it is offering what amounts to a bribe to the state, offering to pay it $10 million a year to let them pull the plug on the dogs.
"Dog racing is simply dead," Harrah's lobbyist Jim Carney told Iowa politicians. "I mean, that's a fact."
Prairie Meadwows, the lone horse track in the state, looks OK, at least for now. But should dog racing go in Iowa that is sure to embolden others to try the same trick in other states and with horse racing. Harrah's owns three horse tracks, Thistledown, Louisiana Downs and Chester and is a part owner of Turfway Park. Might some of those tracks be next in line when it comes to Harrah's scheme to pay states to let them close racetracks? And what about other gaming companies that own racetracks? There's no doubt they are carefully monitoring the Iowa situation and plotting plans of their own to pay to close some tracks.
You can be sure that Penn National is paying attention to what is going on in Iowa and Indiana. Penn National is the largest racetrack operator in the U.S., but has never been shy about its corporate attitude. They love slot machines. They don't love horse racing.
Penn National President and CEO Peter Carlino drove that point home last week when, during a teleconference on fourth-quarter and year-end earnings, he said his company is going to find ways to lessen the financial drain that is horse racing.
"Racetracks tend to end up with slots-that's our long-term play," Carlino said. "Operating tracks at a loss is not in our long-term plan. We will continue to ratchet down costs. We'll be tough and brutal about that. We're not running a public charity."
If governments would let them, Penn National wouldn't hesitate to cease racing at some of the tracks it owns, and who could blame them? Carlino isn't paid to worry about racing or its future or the trainer with three bad horses in his barn, but to make money for his company and its shareholders. He's right. He shouldn't be running a "public charity."
And in many places, where the grandstands are empty and racing has lost whatever relevance it once had, that is what the sport has become. Smart businessmen like Carlino and the people who run Harrah's want that to end. So do Governors like Daniels. They are far more concerned with budget deficits and providing the children of their constituents with a decent education than they are with whether or not $5,000 claimers should be running for $20,000.
Meanwhile, racing has done nothing to help itself, particularly when it comes to getting the dynamics of supply and demand to work again. Greatly reduce the total number of racing dates out there and the sport's financial outlook wouldn't look quite so bleak. But no one seems to want to do that, not when it's so easy to run bad horses for good money at Racinos.
And shouldn't some of the slots money have been used for something other than purses? Why not huge marketing campaigns or massive reductions in takeout? Have any Racinos invested in capital improvements for the racetracks and not just the slots parlors?
And now things are starting to change. Where will the sport be when the slots money starts to go away? Whatever the answer is, it's not a good one.
Bill Finley is an award-winning racing writer whose work has appeared in The New York Times, USA Today and Sports Illustrated. Contact him at [email protected].
Say goodbye to slots gravy train?Email Print Comments6 By Bill Finley
Special to ESPN.com
Archive
The sport has had a nice run with slot machines, those gizmos that have fattened purses, made a lot of owners a lot of money and kept a dozen or so racetracks from closing. But the good times are about to end, and a lot sooner than you might have thought.
A system -- broke state governments allowing tens of millions in slots revenue to go to horse racing -- that could never last is starting to crumble. The first few weeks of 2011 have included some very ominous news for the slots-racing relationship and the future of horse racing.
It started in Indiana, where Governor Mitch Daniels blindsided the Thoroughbred and Standardbred industries last month when issuing a budget proposal that called for 43 percent of the slots money that was going to racing to instead go to the state's general fund. The budget must still go through several channels before being enacted and it can be changed after other state lawmakers are heard from, but industry sources said they were not confident there would be major changes forthcoming when it came to racing. With the vast majority of purse monies in Indiana coming from slots, Daniels' proposal could devastate the industry in the Hoosier State.
Indiana has long been the envy of other states, particularly slots-free Kentucky. Hoosier Park and Indiana Downs grew from minor-league racetracks to places offering top purses and stakes races that could attract the likes of Thoroughbred champion Lookin at Lucky. Once Daniels' axe is wielded, Indiana racing will likely be back to where it started and people who invested heavily in farms and breeding operations there will take a huge financial hit.
In Iowa, the target is dog racing. The casino company Harrah's, which owns a kennel club in Council Bluffs, is leading the fight to end dog racing in the state. In order to do so, it is offering what amounts to a bribe to the state, offering to pay it $10 million a year to let them pull the plug on the dogs.
"Dog racing is simply dead," Harrah's lobbyist Jim Carney told Iowa politicians. "I mean, that's a fact."
Prairie Meadwows, the lone horse track in the state, looks OK, at least for now. But should dog racing go in Iowa that is sure to embolden others to try the same trick in other states and with horse racing. Harrah's owns three horse tracks, Thistledown, Louisiana Downs and Chester and is a part owner of Turfway Park. Might some of those tracks be next in line when it comes to Harrah's scheme to pay states to let them close racetracks? And what about other gaming companies that own racetracks? There's no doubt they are carefully monitoring the Iowa situation and plotting plans of their own to pay to close some tracks.
You can be sure that Penn National is paying attention to what is going on in Iowa and Indiana. Penn National is the largest racetrack operator in the U.S., but has never been shy about its corporate attitude. They love slot machines. They don't love horse racing.
Penn National President and CEO Peter Carlino drove that point home last week when, during a teleconference on fourth-quarter and year-end earnings, he said his company is going to find ways to lessen the financial drain that is horse racing.
"Racetracks tend to end up with slots-that's our long-term play," Carlino said. "Operating tracks at a loss is not in our long-term plan. We will continue to ratchet down costs. We'll be tough and brutal about that. We're not running a public charity."
If governments would let them, Penn National wouldn't hesitate to cease racing at some of the tracks it owns, and who could blame them? Carlino isn't paid to worry about racing or its future or the trainer with three bad horses in his barn, but to make money for his company and its shareholders. He's right. He shouldn't be running a "public charity."
And in many places, where the grandstands are empty and racing has lost whatever relevance it once had, that is what the sport has become. Smart businessmen like Carlino and the people who run Harrah's want that to end. So do Governors like Daniels. They are far more concerned with budget deficits and providing the children of their constituents with a decent education than they are with whether or not $5,000 claimers should be running for $20,000.
Meanwhile, racing has done nothing to help itself, particularly when it comes to getting the dynamics of supply and demand to work again. Greatly reduce the total number of racing dates out there and the sport's financial outlook wouldn't look quite so bleak. But no one seems to want to do that, not when it's so easy to run bad horses for good money at Racinos.
And shouldn't some of the slots money have been used for something other than purses? Why not huge marketing campaigns or massive reductions in takeout? Have any Racinos invested in capital improvements for the racetracks and not just the slots parlors?
And now things are starting to change. Where will the sport be when the slots money starts to go away? Whatever the answer is, it's not a good one.
Bill Finley is an award-winning racing writer whose work has appeared in The New York Times, USA Today and Sports Illustrated. Contact him at [email protected].
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jrgators
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Rick wrote:Saw this today. If you thinks slots are the answer, you are mistaken.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/ ... id=6099620
Thanks for the article Rick, but I've said this, as have others on this board, and people don't seem to get it. Other than the reduction of race dates, I strongly agree with the article.
Great point too is about capital improvements. Why not use some money to advertise the horseracing side a bit.
I don't think that horseracing is dead at all. I think that it's very useful, and the biggest thing that has hurt our industry is the same thing that has hurt many others. People don't like delayed action! That's why scratch off lottery tickets do so well, as do the slot machines. YOu don't have to wait every 25 minutes 9 or 10 times a day for some action. I know we have Simulcasting, and that's part of the success of that industry. You can have 10-12 different tracks going, and betting on different types of animals, but they have gotta be running somewhere!
Nice article, great points, and without a doubt the slots or nothing followers need to pay very close attention.
Have a great day everyone.
Theophilus Scales, Jr.
What are the effects of reduced dates? We've been reducing dates for something like 6 years in Texas. The purses keep getting smaller the crowds keep getting smaller, less money is bet. Reducing dates does not seem to have helped us in Texas. We tend to blame the success of our neighbors with slots for all our problems. We really need to have some far sighted leadership who will look at ALL possible sources to increase purses. Last year LS went head to head with all the big tracks and charged more for their signal than the other tracks and guess what handle was down. Repeating one of my favorite stats. LS's million dollar day had 2 million bet and a nice crowd. SH's last Monday night had 1.2 million bet with purses of less than 100,000. There is a lot of wiggle room, when we get away from the slots only agenda.
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Try it you will like it.
Try it you will like it.
Sam Houston’s handle last Monday night was nice, but correct me if I am wrong; the % handling going to purses from simulcast dollars is rather small as compared to live handle % to purses. I forget the actual % without having to pull my files. Does anyone have live handle comparisons to last year for SH? Only live racing will increase overall handle and build a loyal fan base, attract trainers and horses etc. Well slots and / or ADW will build purses if they ever pass – not sure about the horse racing fans part. The continual cutting of dates is erosive for the fans and to the base of horses needed to make the sport thrive. Without new fans we are going to die a slow but sure death so forget slots and figure out how to attract more fans. We forgot about the fans I think. That is the real question to address for horse racing. Don't forget the fans! Accept that the avg. Joe ( no offense) would rather play a quick pick lotto tic than bet a horse. Too confusing for many I guess. We need to understand how to change the current reality of the younger crowd and what they enjoy.
It has been repeated time and time again here on the forum that, once we lose trainers and horses to LA, NM, OK they are not coming back – until our purses & # of dates improve. What business’s today are not fighting to keep its customers and fans? In Texas racing, we tried to push them out the door with the 60 day meet proposal and succeeded in creating our own downfall in part. Cutting dates is counter -productive once we reach a critical threshold. I supported date cuts at one time, but look what has happened over the past 4-5 years.
With regard to the above article I agree in part. Once slots are in operation, the tracks would rather operate a slots / gaming facility than actually run a live race meet. Outside of increasing the footprint of gaming I think Texas is just as likely to get full blown casinos as opposed to VLTS for the tracks. Who will go to a track VLT vs a casino complex if they both are avail? Not the best case for racing in Texas. Full casinos is what will raise the most tax revenue and makes economic sense given the current budget dilemma. If the public is allowed to vote on the constitutional amendment to allow slots or casinos they both would pass IMO.
The danger of the slots or nothing agenda is that if the politicians or Perry are not for it; we have no back-up plan. We have never looked past the holy grail of slots. Texas racing needs to look at all other sources such as ADW, Instant racing and OTB’s in order to compete and be successful on its own as opposed to slots. Why our various horseman associations are not in full support of ADW is most puzzling to me. We know the agenda for the tracks is slots but lets not sell out to them!
The leaps in Technology allowing bets to be taken on the smart phone devices avail today is a huge potential revenue driver – it is available today and we are going to lose out on the most basic change in the revenue stream avail for purses now avail – ADW’s. VLt’s are still several years away if they pass this year, so why not look at alternatives unless you have sold out. A simple question really or I am missing something ?
It has been repeated time and time again here on the forum that, once we lose trainers and horses to LA, NM, OK they are not coming back – until our purses & # of dates improve. What business’s today are not fighting to keep its customers and fans? In Texas racing, we tried to push them out the door with the 60 day meet proposal and succeeded in creating our own downfall in part. Cutting dates is counter -productive once we reach a critical threshold. I supported date cuts at one time, but look what has happened over the past 4-5 years.
With regard to the above article I agree in part. Once slots are in operation, the tracks would rather operate a slots / gaming facility than actually run a live race meet. Outside of increasing the footprint of gaming I think Texas is just as likely to get full blown casinos as opposed to VLTS for the tracks. Who will go to a track VLT vs a casino complex if they both are avail? Not the best case for racing in Texas. Full casinos is what will raise the most tax revenue and makes economic sense given the current budget dilemma. If the public is allowed to vote on the constitutional amendment to allow slots or casinos they both would pass IMO.
The danger of the slots or nothing agenda is that if the politicians or Perry are not for it; we have no back-up plan. We have never looked past the holy grail of slots. Texas racing needs to look at all other sources such as ADW, Instant racing and OTB’s in order to compete and be successful on its own as opposed to slots. Why our various horseman associations are not in full support of ADW is most puzzling to me. We know the agenda for the tracks is slots but lets not sell out to them!
The leaps in Technology allowing bets to be taken on the smart phone devices avail today is a huge potential revenue driver – it is available today and we are going to lose out on the most basic change in the revenue stream avail for purses now avail – ADW’s. VLt’s are still several years away if they pass this year, so why not look at alternatives unless you have sold out. A simple question really or I am missing something ?
This is all so sad. The thought that Joe is looking at a law suit because he had the courage to stand up and speak up certainly goes against the grain of what is supposed to be Texas political culture. Our good governor today in his state of the state address spoke against "frivilous law suits." Time and money wasted. Why is this happening?
The second sad thing, is that the horses are forgotten in all of this. It is all about gambling and making money. That is not why I got into the horse business. We wonder why racing is dying, while other horse sports are growing? I suggest that it is because the "powers that be" really have forgotten about the horses. We have lost too many good people in this business because there is not much pleasure or pride left for the cost and effort required.
It is also sad that the associations that are supposed to represent us are failing. This forum was started because we were shut off in another venue. I see some recent movement toward transparency and cooperation from the TTA, but clearly the breeding industry needs more leadership and support. I wonder why we hear so little from the HPBA about the real concerns and problems of those folks still left on the backside?
At the moment, my reading of our situation is somewhat pessimistic. I have not always been so, but the divisions are serious. I have more confidence in the Texas Racing Commission than the other organizations to protect the interests of Texas horse folks. I cannot trust the racetracks to do this, and I hope that will change.
Just my thoughts.
Bedouwia
The second sad thing, is that the horses are forgotten in all of this. It is all about gambling and making money. That is not why I got into the horse business. We wonder why racing is dying, while other horse sports are growing? I suggest that it is because the "powers that be" really have forgotten about the horses. We have lost too many good people in this business because there is not much pleasure or pride left for the cost and effort required.
It is also sad that the associations that are supposed to represent us are failing. This forum was started because we were shut off in another venue. I see some recent movement toward transparency and cooperation from the TTA, but clearly the breeding industry needs more leadership and support. I wonder why we hear so little from the HPBA about the real concerns and problems of those folks still left on the backside?
At the moment, my reading of our situation is somewhat pessimistic. I have not always been so, but the divisions are serious. I have more confidence in the Texas Racing Commission than the other organizations to protect the interests of Texas horse folks. I cannot trust the racetracks to do this, and I hope that will change.
Just my thoughts.
Bedouwia