Good evening everyone!
Congrats to those who had win pictures taken the past weekend!!
For those of you who aren't aware, there is now an online Radio program that I will be on this Monday night. We'll have a special guest as well, and that Doug Vair from Retama Park. This program is call the SW Horse Racing Network! It's about SW horse racing, and what is going on with it.
Please tune in, and join the fun.
Have a great night, and stay strong!
Theo
Texas Thoroughbred Forum
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
There have been several posts usually by the same person on here & FB that simply aren't true in which I'd like to address:
1. IRM - Several years ago, Bryan Brown spent lots of time, energy & money on polls, bill language & surveys regarding IRMs. He presented all this to the TXRC and was turned away. They would not support it. In this legis session, BOTH association ED's worked extensively with Rep. Hildebran to change the TXRacingAct language in which it says "live" racing, thus allowing IRMs in TX. He asked them for their help & resources in which they gave. The Derby Bill passed but the language change did not. Also, in this legis session, the associations worked with TX HORSE & WinforTexas to get the VLT bill voted out of committee. The bill DID make it out of committe, but our Governor is the one who stopped it from getting on the calendar - NOT THE ASSOCIATIONS.
2. 60 days - The posts were that the THP requested Global Gaming to run a shorter schedule and that according to THP board members, LSP is going to run a 60 day meet next year as of last Fri (post dated 7/11). THE THP NEVER REQUESTED LSP TO RUN LESS THAN 60 DAYS. In our board meeting on 6/30 at LSP, Mr. Shubeck & Mr. Chang never ever mentioned running or requesting 60 days. THE PURSE MONEY IS JUST NOT THERE TO DO IT. LSP has an overpayment this meet of $900,000. By cutting out Million-dollar day except for 1 stakes race and running 53-54 days next year, the purses are going to be close to $140,000/day and they are still going to have an overpayment of $400-$500,000. LSP shut down the simulcast building on 7/11 for extensive renovations. The simulcast patrons are using the grandstand building during this time. The goal is to have it re-open Breeders Cup weekend. Our simulcast export during the live meet was down 16.5% according to Mr. Shubeck, people this is where our purse money comes from. Handicappers just didn't bet on LSP. Even with LSP being the premiere track in TX, their purses next year are going to be less than SH. I spoke to each board member and no one said they stated LSP was running 60 days.
3. lawsuit - I filed a lawsuit against Mr. Kerby for his slanderous statements and allegations of criminal activity by our board. I AM NOT SEEKING MONETARY DAMAGES THROUGH THIS SUIT, I'M ONLY REQUESTING HE STOP MAKING FALSE STATEMENTS. He posted the lawsuit is the attempt to financially hurt him & his farm. Frankly, I don't care what he does on his farm, but what I do care about is the continuous false statements made against our board in which I will defend wholeheartedly. We've already been to court once in which the TRO was not granted, but the judge saw merit in the case, so we are going to trial in November. Mr. Kerby's insurance company is representing him, so his posts are again untrue.
1. IRM - Several years ago, Bryan Brown spent lots of time, energy & money on polls, bill language & surveys regarding IRMs. He presented all this to the TXRC and was turned away. They would not support it. In this legis session, BOTH association ED's worked extensively with Rep. Hildebran to change the TXRacingAct language in which it says "live" racing, thus allowing IRMs in TX. He asked them for their help & resources in which they gave. The Derby Bill passed but the language change did not. Also, in this legis session, the associations worked with TX HORSE & WinforTexas to get the VLT bill voted out of committee. The bill DID make it out of committe, but our Governor is the one who stopped it from getting on the calendar - NOT THE ASSOCIATIONS.
2. 60 days - The posts were that the THP requested Global Gaming to run a shorter schedule and that according to THP board members, LSP is going to run a 60 day meet next year as of last Fri (post dated 7/11). THE THP NEVER REQUESTED LSP TO RUN LESS THAN 60 DAYS. In our board meeting on 6/30 at LSP, Mr. Shubeck & Mr. Chang never ever mentioned running or requesting 60 days. THE PURSE MONEY IS JUST NOT THERE TO DO IT. LSP has an overpayment this meet of $900,000. By cutting out Million-dollar day except for 1 stakes race and running 53-54 days next year, the purses are going to be close to $140,000/day and they are still going to have an overpayment of $400-$500,000. LSP shut down the simulcast building on 7/11 for extensive renovations. The simulcast patrons are using the grandstand building during this time. The goal is to have it re-open Breeders Cup weekend. Our simulcast export during the live meet was down 16.5% according to Mr. Shubeck, people this is where our purse money comes from. Handicappers just didn't bet on LSP. Even with LSP being the premiere track in TX, their purses next year are going to be less than SH. I spoke to each board member and no one said they stated LSP was running 60 days.
3. lawsuit - I filed a lawsuit against Mr. Kerby for his slanderous statements and allegations of criminal activity by our board. I AM NOT SEEKING MONETARY DAMAGES THROUGH THIS SUIT, I'M ONLY REQUESTING HE STOP MAKING FALSE STATEMENTS. He posted the lawsuit is the attempt to financially hurt him & his farm. Frankly, I don't care what he does on his farm, but what I do care about is the continuous false statements made against our board in which I will defend wholeheartedly. We've already been to court once in which the TRO was not granted, but the judge saw merit in the case, so we are going to trial in November. Mr. Kerby's insurance company is representing him, so his posts are again untrue.
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keyranch
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The statement was that in their application, Global based their numbers on 60 day meets. My personal experience and statements made to me personally led me believe that Global will submit to the horsemens requests, and it is a contradiction to what they presented to the TRC. Through the whole race dates debate last year the problem is racing opportunity over an average dailey purse. The drop in simulcast handle which, as I understand, gives 1/5 as much to purses as live handle. Therefore, the 4% increase in live and the 16% decrease in simulcast is a wash from the previous year. There may be a 30 dollar a day difference.
With the restrictions passed in the ADW betting, and the likely increases by the new management you would think the numbers would be a bit different for next year. The justification for reducing racing opportunity so that LS has an average dailey purse higher than Houston is not keeping with the concept of trying to close the gaps for a year round racing circuit for Texas horsemen.
You have to be specific about the untrue posts, the lawsuit is Jan Haynes Vs Joe Kerby and not the THP board against Joe Kerby. The only possible objective and the posts from the board members about my little farm, stallions, etc is just an example of intimidation that the assocaitions feel they are entittled to employ as a tactic. All you have to do is read the statements made in front of the TRC in last years race dates committee meetings.
As far as not caring about my little farm and family, that is very true and if the THP/TTA would have succeeded in reducing the raceing opportunity by 48%; myself and 48% of the industry would not be here!! Again, the queen stood up when it counted in the end of the debates and credit has been given at every opportunity for that.
Finally, if you believe I am making false statements, correct my statements and debate the issues on the forum. I personally do not have issue with the Queen, but when it comes to representing all the horsemen I feel the association has fallen short. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it.
With the restrictions passed in the ADW betting, and the likely increases by the new management you would think the numbers would be a bit different for next year. The justification for reducing racing opportunity so that LS has an average dailey purse higher than Houston is not keeping with the concept of trying to close the gaps for a year round racing circuit for Texas horsemen.
You have to be specific about the untrue posts, the lawsuit is Jan Haynes Vs Joe Kerby and not the THP board against Joe Kerby. The only possible objective and the posts from the board members about my little farm, stallions, etc is just an example of intimidation that the assocaitions feel they are entittled to employ as a tactic. All you have to do is read the statements made in front of the TRC in last years race dates committee meetings.
As far as not caring about my little farm and family, that is very true and if the THP/TTA would have succeeded in reducing the raceing opportunity by 48%; myself and 48% of the industry would not be here!! Again, the queen stood up when it counted in the end of the debates and credit has been given at every opportunity for that.
Finally, if you believe I am making false statements, correct my statements and debate the issues on the forum. I personally do not have issue with the Queen, but when it comes to representing all the horsemen I feel the association has fallen short. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it.
Queen, thanks for the explanation, but unnecessary. Anyone w/half a brain knows Key makes stuff up as he goes along just to keep his 3-4 mushroom member organization stirred up. I tried to also explain the 900k LS overpayment to no avail.
Tinner, am I correct in assuming that you would rather have LS run the 60 day meet & lose additional amounts between 700-800k for those 7 days & make purses around 115k rather than 140k? This would almost guarantee Steve, Bret, Karl, Bruner & Pish would run somewhere else. These trainers make up almost 65% of the exotic wagering & the impact to the handle would be devastating.
Tinner, am I correct in assuming that you would rather have LS run the 60 day meet & lose additional amounts between 700-800k for those 7 days & make purses around 115k rather than 140k? This would almost guarantee Steve, Bret, Karl, Bruner & Pish would run somewhere else. These trainers make up almost 65% of the exotic wagering & the impact to the handle would be devastating.
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tinners way
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Gate, I think you should always be careful when you assume. My statement was in response to a comment that at no time had Lone Star requested 60 days for 2012. That was erroneous. Last year the request had been made and is posted on the TRC site.
As for how many days, I think that is in the process of being debated. To make an assumption of who will and who will not race would be wrong as well. Based on just a few of the names, there were several that indicated they would be inclined not to run at Lone Star in 2011 unless we had at least $230k per day. Inclination is an interesting line in the sand.
In addition to days, I am hopeful that we can somehow address what is the best solution to the gaps that have been created with the reduction in dates. That is an issue that I am sure each of the trainers you mentioned, and their owners are concerned about as well- and what may be hampering other trainers from wanting to come back to Texas.
Again, you are quick to attack, but not address the issues for what they are, or offer solutions. i.e. would it make sense to max purses with 53 days, but close the gap between Houston and Lone Star to 2 weeks vs. 4? Would Retama do better running a little later in the fall, and create one big gap with July, August and part of September?
As for how many days, I think that is in the process of being debated. To make an assumption of who will and who will not race would be wrong as well. Based on just a few of the names, there were several that indicated they would be inclined not to run at Lone Star in 2011 unless we had at least $230k per day. Inclination is an interesting line in the sand.
In addition to days, I am hopeful that we can somehow address what is the best solution to the gaps that have been created with the reduction in dates. That is an issue that I am sure each of the trainers you mentioned, and their owners are concerned about as well- and what may be hampering other trainers from wanting to come back to Texas.
Again, you are quick to attack, but not address the issues for what they are, or offer solutions. i.e. would it make sense to max purses with 53 days, but close the gap between Houston and Lone Star to 2 weeks vs. 4? Would Retama do better running a little later in the fall, and create one big gap with July, August and part of September?
[quote="Gate2Wire"]. I tried to also explain the 900k LS overpayment to no avail.
I've been asking for that figure for weeks. When did you try to explain it.
The real question is where was the THP when this $900,000 loan to the purse account occured? Surely you don't just wait until the end of the meet and let Management tell you the purses owe us $900,000. Everyone of you attended the $1,000,000 stakes day party. LS had a whopping $1,900,000 total bet with races worth a $1,000,000. The attendance made LS money, but the show cost local horsemen a fortune. How much future purse money did that almost $2,000,000 generate? Last year it was $400,000 taken from the 2011 purses and now $900,000 is taken from the 2012 purses???????
I've been asking for that figure for weeks. When did you try to explain it.
The real question is where was the THP when this $900,000 loan to the purse account occured? Surely you don't just wait until the end of the meet and let Management tell you the purses owe us $900,000. Everyone of you attended the $1,000,000 stakes day party. LS had a whopping $1,900,000 total bet with races worth a $1,000,000. The attendance made LS money, but the show cost local horsemen a fortune. How much future purse money did that almost $2,000,000 generate? Last year it was $400,000 taken from the 2011 purses and now $900,000 is taken from the 2012 purses???????
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keyranch
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OK, G2W what was incorrect about the posted statement. I have four or five fact checkers that correct me within minutes of any posting I make. They can fill this space with letters beside their names from various institutions of higher education.
Of course, since you are the unknown comic we can not verify your qualifications for anything except the ability to attack other posters. There is a big difference between political discourse or debate and senseless personal attacks.
As far as my insurance covering the bogus slander case, my statement was that the case was brought to hurt myself, my farm, and my family financially by having to defend against the case. The cost of legal council could have been devastating. The increase in insurance premiums will probably not be any fun either. That is what the attempt was and from your statements on PQ you believed it was working.
As far as defending the board from my accusations, that was kind of a strange statement. We read through a lot of postings and it appears more of defending the board from answering for the positions they took over their support for the reduction in race dates. There should have been a responsibility to the membership to not put half of them out of bussiness!
Of course, since you are the unknown comic we can not verify your qualifications for anything except the ability to attack other posters. There is a big difference between political discourse or debate and senseless personal attacks.
As far as my insurance covering the bogus slander case, my statement was that the case was brought to hurt myself, my farm, and my family financially by having to defend against the case. The cost of legal council could have been devastating. The increase in insurance premiums will probably not be any fun either. That is what the attempt was and from your statements on PQ you believed it was working.
As far as defending the board from my accusations, that was kind of a strange statement. We read through a lot of postings and it appears more of defending the board from answering for the positions they took over their support for the reduction in race dates. There should have been a responsibility to the membership to not put half of them out of bussiness!
Tinner: in re the"2012 Granted Horse Race Dates (as of September 14, 2010) You are correct that 60 days in 2012 were requested by LSP last year; I have a copy of the TRC-published schedule and I stand corrected. But do you understand that this was a perfunctory request which meant nothing at the time. Note that Retama was assigned 2 days only, and Larado Race Park, Longhorn downs, and Valle de los Tesoros likewise had perfunctory filings, with final requests to be made at a later date, which is now determined to be August 16, 2011. LSP and SH are going to request more dates than last year for 2012, but that 60 day meet that fixates mushrooms is still a myth.
Roger: LSP is not going to run those stakes next year. Money is not "taken", and the show did not cost horsemen anything; the purses were paid. Unfortunately, Texas horsemen didn't win the purses so there is a pall of sour grapes in some ranks. The overpayments are paid to horsemen, and are lent to the purse fund by the track until they are regenerated via handle from live meets or simulcasts. If the track can't regenerate the money, it cuts the overnight purses at the end of the meet, and also recoups the loss from future simulcast allocations (sometimes the track will absorb part of the loss, which amounts to a de facto gift to the purse account. Handle is way down, so next year's purses at LSP are going to be down, too. This will be compunded by closing of the simulcast facility until fall, but the remodeling must be done to attract customers to increase subsequent purses. The THP has no control over the track whatsoever in regard to these decisions, and neither does the TRC.
Queen: I am hoping that the overnight average purse will be about the same, since the large sums won't have to be paid for stakes.
G2W: If I am correct about the overnights (it's just a calculated guess, dammit) then I think that the trainers you mentioned above will continue to run quality horses, TX and otherwise, at the LSP meet, and Global Gaming will have a better ongoing promotion effort to stimulate handle and also corporate sponsorship of some races.
Key: for the zillionth time, the THP does not support reduction of race dates, and is doing its best to salvage opportunity for every horse operation in Texas to remain viable. Even yours.
Roger: LSP is not going to run those stakes next year. Money is not "taken", and the show did not cost horsemen anything; the purses were paid. Unfortunately, Texas horsemen didn't win the purses so there is a pall of sour grapes in some ranks. The overpayments are paid to horsemen, and are lent to the purse fund by the track until they are regenerated via handle from live meets or simulcasts. If the track can't regenerate the money, it cuts the overnight purses at the end of the meet, and also recoups the loss from future simulcast allocations (sometimes the track will absorb part of the loss, which amounts to a de facto gift to the purse account. Handle is way down, so next year's purses at LSP are going to be down, too. This will be compunded by closing of the simulcast facility until fall, but the remodeling must be done to attract customers to increase subsequent purses. The THP has no control over the track whatsoever in regard to these decisions, and neither does the TRC.
Queen: I am hoping that the overnight average purse will be about the same, since the large sums won't have to be paid for stakes.
G2W: If I am correct about the overnights (it's just a calculated guess, dammit) then I think that the trainers you mentioned above will continue to run quality horses, TX and otherwise, at the LSP meet, and Global Gaming will have a better ongoing promotion effort to stimulate handle and also corporate sponsorship of some races.
Key: for the zillionth time, the THP does not support reduction of race dates, and is doing its best to salvage opportunity for every horse operation in Texas to remain viable. Even yours.
Last edited by Ajo on Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jrgators
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Good morning everyone!
Lots of interesting postings....
As for the race dates issues, let's wait and see what actually happens. I think that LSP has a good management team, and they will do what's best for LSP and Texas racing. The purse money argument is not a new argument, and who will/will not show up to race is not new either. The ultimate choice is with the race dates process, but what do we really want to do? Is 7 more days of racing worth 25K a day for the entire meet? That's for each individual to decide for themselves.
Overpayment has gotten a lot of traction on the board for some reason. Overpayments happen often, and to the best of my knowledge this isn't the first time for LSP, and if memory serves me correctly, SHRP has had the same problem in 08 and 09. Plus a pretty big one in 2010.
IMO, the tracks MUST have the flex to do what's best for them without killing the horsemen. Let's not forget what happened with SHRP they opted out of many of their dates last year.
The summer racing in the cool summer days of LSP, I don't believe will change, and the tracks will decide when they are in the best position to race. It's terribly HOT, and I for one would be dancing in the shedrow at the thought of getting out of that horrid heat.
Sorry about the radio program last night, there were some issues that will be cleared up by next weeks program, and we should be back up and running.
We've got a few tentative guest coming up, Dave Hooper (TTA), Chuck Wooley (Mine that Bird), Ran Leonard (OTA), and Rep Hildebran coming up over the next couple of shows. Jan, I'd love to have you on the program too, can you give me a call if you are interested...512-529-3417.
For those who've asked me about my mother, I thank you! She has nothing to do with horse racing, but most know that I'm home in Ohio with her, and her battle with Cancer!
Be blessed everyone, and let's keep moving forward, working together to do what's best for Texas!!
Theo
Lots of interesting postings....
As for the race dates issues, let's wait and see what actually happens. I think that LSP has a good management team, and they will do what's best for LSP and Texas racing. The purse money argument is not a new argument, and who will/will not show up to race is not new either. The ultimate choice is with the race dates process, but what do we really want to do? Is 7 more days of racing worth 25K a day for the entire meet? That's for each individual to decide for themselves.
Overpayment has gotten a lot of traction on the board for some reason. Overpayments happen often, and to the best of my knowledge this isn't the first time for LSP, and if memory serves me correctly, SHRP has had the same problem in 08 and 09. Plus a pretty big one in 2010.
IMO, the tracks MUST have the flex to do what's best for them without killing the horsemen. Let's not forget what happened with SHRP they opted out of many of their dates last year.
The summer racing in the cool summer days of LSP, I don't believe will change, and the tracks will decide when they are in the best position to race. It's terribly HOT, and I for one would be dancing in the shedrow at the thought of getting out of that horrid heat.
Sorry about the radio program last night, there were some issues that will be cleared up by next weeks program, and we should be back up and running.
We've got a few tentative guest coming up, Dave Hooper (TTA), Chuck Wooley (Mine that Bird), Ran Leonard (OTA), and Rep Hildebran coming up over the next couple of shows. Jan, I'd love to have you on the program too, can you give me a call if you are interested...512-529-3417.
For those who've asked me about my mother, I thank you! She has nothing to do with horse racing, but most know that I'm home in Ohio with her, and her battle with Cancer!
Be blessed everyone, and let's keep moving forward, working together to do what's best for Texas!!
Theo
I have a simply question, and it is more than likely out of ignorance. G2W, instead of shortening the race days why not shorten the purses? Of course, everything is about the money, but doesn't it seem that it would benefit Texas racing if the money stayed in Texas? To me (a lay person, admittedly) if we took this all back to basics it would work. Instead of trying to draw the big people in, lets try and keep the racing that we have and expound on that? I guess simply the law of econimics just doesn't work anymore...(highly doubted).
Let's work from home; get something that works and then work up from there.
Jazette
Let's work from home; get something that works and then work up from there.
Jazette
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jrgators
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Jazette wrote:I have a simply question, and it is more than likely out of ignorance. G2W, instead of shortening the race days why not shorten the purses? Of course, everything is about the money, but doesn't it seem that it would benefit Texas racing if the money stayed in Texas? To me (a lay person, admittedly) if we took this all back to basics it would work. Instead of trying to draw the big people in, lets try and keep the racing that we have and expound on that? I guess simply the law of econimics just doesn't work anymore...(highly doubted).
Let's work from home; get something that works and then work up from there.
Jazette
Hi Jazette,
This argument has been made over and over, and IMO is a valid argument indeed. The problem is the question of the amount that will make more people happy. If you run for too little money, some won't like it, if you run fewer days, some won't like it. It boils down to simply that point.
My thought personally, I'd rather run a few more days for a little less money. There is the other side, and that is how little is too little? If we are talking days or dollars, there is a bottom for each person. I believe that Jan, Marsha, Dave, and the tracks are looking at a REASONABLE number both ways. Is it ideal! Heck NO!! But we are still looking at not CUTTING any dates from the previous year, and that's a first in MANY years!!
If we gain a few here and there, and don't loose any I think it's a net gain. Now I'm kinda out of the loop right now, but the last rumor I've heard is that we will possibly gain 2-6 days at SHRP, and gain 2-4 days at Retama, now i could be wrong! But if that's correct, I'm happy with that for a final number of total days.
If this trend continues of gaining days, that will be awesome! It's kinda like the gas prices, they go up by dimes, and come down by pennies! But coming down in price is just that coming down. WE all wish that the prices of gas would fall by quarters! LOL
Hang in there Jazette, I believe for all of us it will continue to get better. I think it's like Mr. Pickard posted a couple of days ago on FB, we need more participation from the horsemen and women!
Theo
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jrgators
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LOL, you must have got extra sleep during your afternoon nap, because your humor is back!! LOL
I think we have to stay focused on the big picture in this, and keep in mind, if LSP finds more money, they can ask for more days!!
Let's not forget according to the article from Retama Park yesterday (posted on FB page by Michael Marke) none of the tracks have a cash flow that's positive. Sadly, I understand not having a positive cash flow!!
We aren't like the shuttle that landed about an hour ago, it's the end, for us, it's more of a new begining! We have the Derby Bill, new ownership of 2 tracks, possible change of ownership of another track, and an enpowered TRC to address the unbuilt tracks finally as well!
There is a good number of horses in the upcoming yearling sale, if things continue to move forward for the sale that Joe is trying to get off the ground, we have yet another sale that will also be a good thing.
Let's never forget how awesome it was with the Rally at the capital, and we know without a doubt that this can be repeated!
Have a great day everyone.
Theo
I think we have to stay focused on the big picture in this, and keep in mind, if LSP finds more money, they can ask for more days!!
Let's not forget according to the article from Retama Park yesterday (posted on FB page by Michael Marke) none of the tracks have a cash flow that's positive. Sadly, I understand not having a positive cash flow!!
We aren't like the shuttle that landed about an hour ago, it's the end, for us, it's more of a new begining! We have the Derby Bill, new ownership of 2 tracks, possible change of ownership of another track, and an enpowered TRC to address the unbuilt tracks finally as well!
There is a good number of horses in the upcoming yearling sale, if things continue to move forward for the sale that Joe is trying to get off the ground, we have yet another sale that will also be a good thing.
Let's never forget how awesome it was with the Rally at the capital, and we know without a doubt that this can be repeated!
Have a great day everyone.
Theo