Again, there is a middle ground. In addition to everything that I said above, racing horse owners must continually remind themselves that they are in show business. Their charges have names, and therefore public sensibilities are naturally elevated toward them.
Also, I would never ban radicals from boards altogether. They should be given a say, but not a free hand at domination of a site. Give them their little island where they can talk to themselves as much as they desire. And where the rest of us open-minded ones can go on occasion to get a different opinion.
But to visit a website ostensibly devoted to the sport of racing -- and coming under a relentless heavy barrage of animal-rights activism -- doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Problem is overbreeding....and irresponsibility
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stlouiskid
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You guys are way off base. You have a broodmare and raise babies, you owe her. To "cull" her as you call it, by sending her off to a meat packing plant is immoral. Some of these mare were six years old for crying out loud. You should not be in the horse business.
For a guy like Steve Asmussen, who is making millions of dollars a year in this business, to send a broodmare he owned to the killers is criminal in my mind. How much a year would it cost him to turn out a mare on the huge property they have down there. Not that damn much. Easier to just eliminate them though. And I still want to know, where are the six foals that were born in the last 60 days? Did they get "culled" also?
Reminds me of the King of the Slaughterhouse, the late Dale Baird. Horses that had the misfortune of entering his barn were pretty much boarding the train to Auschwitz.
This industry could be so much better. Greed and self interest are slowly killing it.
For a guy like Steve Asmussen, who is making millions of dollars a year in this business, to send a broodmare he owned to the killers is criminal in my mind. How much a year would it cost him to turn out a mare on the huge property they have down there. Not that damn much. Easier to just eliminate them though. And I still want to know, where are the six foals that were born in the last 60 days? Did they get "culled" also?
Reminds me of the King of the Slaughterhouse, the late Dale Baird. Horses that had the misfortune of entering his barn were pretty much boarding the train to Auschwitz.
This industry could be so much better. Greed and self interest are slowly killing it.
steward wrote:But to visit a website ostensibly devoted to the sport of racing -- and coming under a relentless heavy barrage of animal-rights activism -- doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Unfortunately that is what happens to all sites. Horse racing is evil to them and it must be demonized at every opportunity. Every creature, including man should have some purpose on this earth other than just being. Horses were put here to serve man, and man has a responsibility of good husbandry in his dominion. These nuts have a perverted sense, reversing the role of man and animals.
Within a hundred mile radius of my home there are tens of thousands of "wild" horses that the federal government pays $75.7 million yearly to keep these worthless animals, which are not even native to this country. These are totally useless animals that cannot be touched. They are never wormed or vaccinated, if one becomes sick or crippled it is shot with a rifle with a scope and the carcass hauled to the zoo or to the rendering plant. These were starving horses that the government rounded up from the southwestern desert and shipped to large ranches where they can run free and graze on lush pasture and live well into their 30’s. The reward for the ranchers who get paid $450 per head annually to keep these feral horses is to be hounded by radical nuts, claiming outrageous atrocities.
It is this sort of stupidity that these nuts thrive on and why they will continue spread their lunacy on every forum they can.
There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle.
- Alexis de Tocqueville
- Alexis de Tocqueville
stlouiskid wrote:You guys are way off base. You have a broodmare and raise babies, you owe her. To "cull" her as you call it, by sending her off to a meat packing plant is immoral. Some of these mare were six years old for crying out loud. You should not be in the horse business.
For a guy like Steve Asmussen, who is making millions of dollars a year in this business, to send a broodmare he owned to the killers is criminal in my mind. How much a year would it cost him to turn out a mare on the huge property they have down there. Not that damn much. Easier to just eliminate them though. And I still want to know, where are the six foals that were born in the last 60 days? Did they get "culled" also?
Reminds me of the King of the Slaughterhouse, the late Dale Baird. Horses that had the misfortune of entering his barn were pretty much boarding the train to Auschwitz.
This industry could be so much better. Greed and self interest are slowly killing it.
What I do owe is a response to such uninformed nonsense. I doubt you have ever owned a horse but I have - a lot of them. Every one of them fared very well under my care. Read all my other posts on this subject – when I talk about nuts - I'm talking about you. Uninformed radicals with a nutty agenda are doing more to kill the industry than culling.
There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle.
- Alexis de Tocqueville
- Alexis de Tocqueville
I for one do not buy that Keith Asmussen intended for these mares to 'go to slaughter'. Please note what I’m saying - there was NO INTENT on his part to slaughter these mares.
IF he'd wanted that outcome his operation practically sits on the Rio Grande River/Texas-Mexico border with Laredo being one of the largest, most accommodating trans-border shipping centers with holding/handling facilities for livestock between US and Mexico until you go considerable miles south to Brownsville or even more miles north to El Paso. (There may be a sufficient border crossing and livestock handling facility at Eagle Pass – still many miles north of Laredo to make a sale delivery/livestock crossing there.) To pay the fuel costs to haul these mares 231 miles north of that border/market, to pay an auctioneer the fees to sell them, to pay the handlers that drove the truck/handled the mares loading/unloading, etc. for their time and meals on the road makes no economic sense from the perspective of someone who just wanted to dispose of the mares. Nor does it make any sense to invest/expend the effort to breed back broodmares you intend to 'dispose' of via public auction sale. (And yes - there is a cost to breeding a mare - even a 'willing mare' to a 'willing' stallion)
NOR was there any INTENT to secretly, quietly and anonymously be rid of the costs/responsibility for these mares.
To send the mares with their JCA papers, carrying his/his son’s name as last owner of record of these mares, in a van plainly marked "Asmussen Training Center" and reported as having been bred back to "Asmussen" stallions does not point to an effort at anonymous and/or uncaring sale/disposal of these mares.
Without entering into any speculative efforts to read Mr. Asmussen’s mind, it is entirely rational and possible that Keith Asmussen, out of hopefulness that their residual value as TB breeding stock and/or because of the perceived value of his stallions' future progeny they potentially carried in utero, purposefully sent these mares to the Mountain Home auction, in his branded van with their JCA papers in hand and reported as 'bred back' to one of his stallions in an effort to find them homes that would protect and preserve that investment. It sure doesn't make sense to have bred back these mares prior to selling them off if slaughter was the objective/perceived outcome. And it darned sure doesn’t make sense to go to the expense of breeding them back, feeding and caring for them until their 2012 foals were weaned, then paying to ship them 231 miles north of the nearest point to be sold for ‘meat prices’ when there is a ‘ready’ market for horses as meat animals just across the river in the middle of your home town.
IF this had been a callous/uncaring effort to make a few more bucks out of mares he cared little or nothing for he sure went about it expensively, i.e. 'all wrong'. And make no mistake Keith Asmussen is not 'stupid'. Nor are he/his family uncaring of their stock. He and Marilyn, the family have built up a training center with breeding/bloodstock raising efforts – a full service Tb and QH breeding/raising/raining center - at a location that is as far removed from any TB racing centers, auction/sale centers, 'show horse' centers as one can get and still be the US. What offspring they do not sell, they train and race themselves so as not to 'waste' a horse or one of their stallions' offspring. I can think of no one who invests more directly in the stallions they purchase and support, in those stallions' offspring than the Asmussens. They have through their efforts 'made' one stallion - Seneca Jones, a son of Alydar recently deceased - into a recognized regional stallion in that manner. Their support of the thoroughbred and the quarterhorse industry – both in racing and breeding – here in Texas by consistently bringing well nourished, well groomed and decently bred bloodstock to the Fasig Tipton public auctions for over a decade is well documented. I have walked through the Asmussen barn of sales prospects many times and their horses are well prepared, well cared for and well presented. They do not arrive ribby and dull coated, they are not with cuts or scrapes or with hooves split and chipped, their manes and tails are brushed and trimmed and finally they handle well when shown. Are they the equal of the fat and shiny show pony yearlings at Keeneland - likely not - but they are professionally presented in every aspect as bloodstock and show well agaisnt other consignors' stock.
As has been pointed out by other posters above, he could have much more easily/cheaply taken these mares out behind the barn and had them shot. For what he paid to haul/sell them he could have had a "knacker man" come and haul the carcasses off the ranch or he could have dug a large trench and buried them out of sight/out of mind, no one to know any different. With our in-state racing purses at an all time low, with fewer investors in Tx-bred bloodstock as a result, with last year's searing drought and this year's early indication (in western/southwestern parts of Texas that this summer would be another one with no local grass, hay or feed to be had)...I don't doubt that to stay within an investment position where his operation would be/could be profitable he had to make choices. Every rancher or farmer - whether raising cattle, pigs, sheep, goats or thoroughbreds - has to make such analyses and decisions or go broke. He's not running a 'rescue' - he's running a training center and breeding operation and he's totally dependent upon structuring his operation so as to be able to make some profit over his costs if at all possible and changing that structure when necessary to meet changing prices/market conditions. I'm sure there's many a year where 'just breaking even' was a huge success. But make no mistake - though he is not running a rescue this sale of the broodmares at auction was no effort to simply 'cut costs', nor to squeeze out one last little bit of money in an uncaring act of abandonment.
There was no effort at stealth selling or disposal of these mares on his part. In hindsight his only “moral” 'crime' - and make no mistake he has broken no laws and committed no statutory crime - is that he did not do the one other step he could have taken to prevent the possibility of a kill buyer purchasing one of these mares: setting a reserve price below which they would not sell. Assuming its even possible to sell at Mountain Home Livestock auction with a reserve (?).
Please do not buy into this idiotic idea expressed by a poster above that turning these mares loose on the Asmussen spread in Laredo would be an inexpensive option/solution. Obviously that was posted by someone who has no idea how bare of edible grass/nutrition a S. Texas thorn bush, brush country “ranch” can be after two summers with little to no recordable rain. I’ll bet right now even the mesquite in that area are are without leaves – and only cattle will eat prickly pear, that is once the thorns are burnt off with flame throwers which is a fuel and labor intensive effort to prevent starving cattle from eating the cactus with thorns in their desperation. FYI – the nearest ‘alfalfa’ hay is the El Paso area and you’re competing with all the dairy/feedlots from Las Cruces NM to south of El Paso that want/need that food source when you buy it PLUS you have to calculate in the costs of shipping down to Laredo. To loose these mares on the S. Texas brush country pastures of any such spread would be the ultimate cruelty - nothing more than slow starvation within easy reach of some pretty hungry coyotes!
I'm a former small time Texas based breeder who has pensioned my one broodmare , now 25YO, to a friend's farm because I can afford to do so. I've spent countless hours, dollars and personal time/effort to assure that each and every foal I bred - and the two QHs I raced (one purchased at auction and one purchased privately off the backside of Sam Houston Race Park) were all placed in good 'after racing' homes that suited their individual athleticism, soundness and temperaments. I specifically sought to find after racing homes where they would be taught new 'market valued' skills and have a 'job', a purpose other than breeding, which therefore - hopefully - would ensure they're being cared for in their new owners' homes. Reality is that today I only know where the one TB homebred foal I humanely euthanized at age 4YO - and the last TB foal, now 8YO - whom I've retained - actually are. I have anecdotal information from friends and internet searches that leave me to believe – and hope - that all but one of the other horses I've bred or bought is in a good and safe place. However: for that one QH gelding I purchased to race at SHRP and sold expressly for pleasure riding ONLY to a woman shown the X-rays/vet report as to his lack of knee flexion from a healed fracture of the knee I know quite the opposite. I was contacted less than two years after he was sold under this disclosure and these terms by a barrel racer/trainer that had apparently purchased him as a prospect from the woman who purchased him from me. She'd paid twice what I had taken for the horse as he had a desirable barrel racing pedigree and good physicals – only to learn from me of his healed injury which she had not been made aware. I was very sorry to learn that she’d not been informed of his limitation and I sadly informed her that it had been my vet’s express opinion that he was not capable of sustaining soundness nor excelling at sports like barrel racing, dressage or high impact sports like eventing, show jumping, etc. and that a copy of his Vet Check report had been included with the X-ray films that I had retrieved to pass on to the first Buyer, along with his AQHA papers. This second Buyer had only his papers. I also offered to pay her what I had received for the horse – cold cash – and to come pick him up the very next day. At that particular time this was all I could do an would actually have been a real stretch for me to take on. She said she'd think about it and get back to me. When I called back less than two weeks later she informed me she'd sold him for 'ranch work' in Brazoria County. She wouldn't share with me the name of the purchaser nor the name of the ranch so I took that as a ‘cover story’ for having sold him privately with his injury again undisclosed or at a local auction. IF the former it would take little time for a ‘rancher’ to realize he had a damaged horse and sell him on, likely at a local auction like Mountain Home; if the latter I'm sure she took a loss over what she'd paid and quite possibly over what I was willing to pay.
I'm here to tell you that as someone who strives to be a 'conscientious' owner it is darn near impossible to assure that each and every horse that enters one's life can be assured even a humane dispatch, let alone a 30 year or more pleasant pastured existence until they die of natural causes. This is not for lack of resources, nor lack of resolve on the ‘owners/breeders’ part – nor is it the result of callous intent or uncaring indifference on the part of those owners/breeders. It is a near impossible task to track each and every horse one has owned or bred to its final resting spot/moment let alone to be aware of/capable of stepping in to 'save' one. Would I step up to the plate if notified that one of 'mine' - whether bred by me or at one time owned by me - were neglected/in danger of being sold for the meat market - HELL YES! Do I have any assurance that I'll get that chance - NO!
Cheers to Mr. Murrell for stepping in with money when needed/contacted! Cheers to Donna and Dallas Keen's program having the wherewithal/resolve to assist these mares to find good homes! Cheers to the Mabee operation for stepping up to the plate for Luxury in Time! The Thoroughbred sport/industry needs to acknowledge, encourage, support and celebrate their committment to the long term well being of our most important product: the horses.
Having a safety net/network is what this industry and the people involved in it need to have in place but the JCA/TOBA/TTA (here in Texas) have largely ignored demand to create such a tracking/notification network and instead support such situations being handled 'ad hoc' by third parties. Those third parties, no matter how well intentioned are themselves ‘driven’ by the need to raise donations from the public at large. This creates a rather critical link to publicists and stories that rate their attention. Some come to the table with their own agenda of branding the TB breeding industry as callous, indifferent to their bloodstock's welfare and/or ultimate disposition in a humane manner, regardless of how much – or little – truth lies in that position. Regardless of how little attention is spent or directed at the numerous other breeds of horse that wind up in these auctions/selling for killer prices and regardless of the number of ‘family owned’ so-called “pet” horses that wind up in these auctions when children grow tired of their pet or go off to school.
I have more questions from first hearing about this story and subsequently learning that the mares are at or will be taken to the Keen’s ranch/re-careering program. I'd like to know: DID anyone involved in this effort to 'rescue' the "Asmussen mares" make an effort to contact the Asmussens at the same time Mr. Murrell was being contacted and ask them if they were willing to take steps - like a reserve purchase price - to protect these mares? Or was it easier for this rescue organizer/activist to operate on the presumption that her spotters were witness to an uncaring act by an uncaring horse breeder? So instead they called in a supporter and of course, The Paulick Report. Is that because the ‘real value’ of the rescued broodmares is in their inherent story worthy connections? It can't be that hard to reach at least one of the Asmussens. Since the Asmussen mares were not likely the only mares put up for auction that day at Mountain Home can I correctly assume that the rescue activist/spotters took the same care/effort to rescue non-TB mares that day? Or are these 'rescue spotters' breed specific rescuers? Were the Asmussen broodmares the only TBs auctioned off for an average of slightly less than $0.50/pound that day? What efforts were made to rescue those other broodmares/horses that sold for “killer” prices on this particular auction day?
IF he'd wanted that outcome his operation practically sits on the Rio Grande River/Texas-Mexico border with Laredo being one of the largest, most accommodating trans-border shipping centers with holding/handling facilities for livestock between US and Mexico until you go considerable miles south to Brownsville or even more miles north to El Paso. (There may be a sufficient border crossing and livestock handling facility at Eagle Pass – still many miles north of Laredo to make a sale delivery/livestock crossing there.) To pay the fuel costs to haul these mares 231 miles north of that border/market, to pay an auctioneer the fees to sell them, to pay the handlers that drove the truck/handled the mares loading/unloading, etc. for their time and meals on the road makes no economic sense from the perspective of someone who just wanted to dispose of the mares. Nor does it make any sense to invest/expend the effort to breed back broodmares you intend to 'dispose' of via public auction sale. (And yes - there is a cost to breeding a mare - even a 'willing mare' to a 'willing' stallion)
NOR was there any INTENT to secretly, quietly and anonymously be rid of the costs/responsibility for these mares.
To send the mares with their JCA papers, carrying his/his son’s name as last owner of record of these mares, in a van plainly marked "Asmussen Training Center" and reported as having been bred back to "Asmussen" stallions does not point to an effort at anonymous and/or uncaring sale/disposal of these mares.
Without entering into any speculative efforts to read Mr. Asmussen’s mind, it is entirely rational and possible that Keith Asmussen, out of hopefulness that their residual value as TB breeding stock and/or because of the perceived value of his stallions' future progeny they potentially carried in utero, purposefully sent these mares to the Mountain Home auction, in his branded van with their JCA papers in hand and reported as 'bred back' to one of his stallions in an effort to find them homes that would protect and preserve that investment. It sure doesn't make sense to have bred back these mares prior to selling them off if slaughter was the objective/perceived outcome. And it darned sure doesn’t make sense to go to the expense of breeding them back, feeding and caring for them until their 2012 foals were weaned, then paying to ship them 231 miles north of the nearest point to be sold for ‘meat prices’ when there is a ‘ready’ market for horses as meat animals just across the river in the middle of your home town.
IF this had been a callous/uncaring effort to make a few more bucks out of mares he cared little or nothing for he sure went about it expensively, i.e. 'all wrong'. And make no mistake Keith Asmussen is not 'stupid'. Nor are he/his family uncaring of their stock. He and Marilyn, the family have built up a training center with breeding/bloodstock raising efforts – a full service Tb and QH breeding/raising/raining center - at a location that is as far removed from any TB racing centers, auction/sale centers, 'show horse' centers as one can get and still be the US. What offspring they do not sell, they train and race themselves so as not to 'waste' a horse or one of their stallions' offspring. I can think of no one who invests more directly in the stallions they purchase and support, in those stallions' offspring than the Asmussens. They have through their efforts 'made' one stallion - Seneca Jones, a son of Alydar recently deceased - into a recognized regional stallion in that manner. Their support of the thoroughbred and the quarterhorse industry – both in racing and breeding – here in Texas by consistently bringing well nourished, well groomed and decently bred bloodstock to the Fasig Tipton public auctions for over a decade is well documented. I have walked through the Asmussen barn of sales prospects many times and their horses are well prepared, well cared for and well presented. They do not arrive ribby and dull coated, they are not with cuts or scrapes or with hooves split and chipped, their manes and tails are brushed and trimmed and finally they handle well when shown. Are they the equal of the fat and shiny show pony yearlings at Keeneland - likely not - but they are professionally presented in every aspect as bloodstock and show well agaisnt other consignors' stock.
As has been pointed out by other posters above, he could have much more easily/cheaply taken these mares out behind the barn and had them shot. For what he paid to haul/sell them he could have had a "knacker man" come and haul the carcasses off the ranch or he could have dug a large trench and buried them out of sight/out of mind, no one to know any different. With our in-state racing purses at an all time low, with fewer investors in Tx-bred bloodstock as a result, with last year's searing drought and this year's early indication (in western/southwestern parts of Texas that this summer would be another one with no local grass, hay or feed to be had)...I don't doubt that to stay within an investment position where his operation would be/could be profitable he had to make choices. Every rancher or farmer - whether raising cattle, pigs, sheep, goats or thoroughbreds - has to make such analyses and decisions or go broke. He's not running a 'rescue' - he's running a training center and breeding operation and he's totally dependent upon structuring his operation so as to be able to make some profit over his costs if at all possible and changing that structure when necessary to meet changing prices/market conditions. I'm sure there's many a year where 'just breaking even' was a huge success. But make no mistake - though he is not running a rescue this sale of the broodmares at auction was no effort to simply 'cut costs', nor to squeeze out one last little bit of money in an uncaring act of abandonment.
There was no effort at stealth selling or disposal of these mares on his part. In hindsight his only “moral” 'crime' - and make no mistake he has broken no laws and committed no statutory crime - is that he did not do the one other step he could have taken to prevent the possibility of a kill buyer purchasing one of these mares: setting a reserve price below which they would not sell. Assuming its even possible to sell at Mountain Home Livestock auction with a reserve (?).
Please do not buy into this idiotic idea expressed by a poster above that turning these mares loose on the Asmussen spread in Laredo would be an inexpensive option/solution. Obviously that was posted by someone who has no idea how bare of edible grass/nutrition a S. Texas thorn bush, brush country “ranch” can be after two summers with little to no recordable rain. I’ll bet right now even the mesquite in that area are are without leaves – and only cattle will eat prickly pear, that is once the thorns are burnt off with flame throwers which is a fuel and labor intensive effort to prevent starving cattle from eating the cactus with thorns in their desperation. FYI – the nearest ‘alfalfa’ hay is the El Paso area and you’re competing with all the dairy/feedlots from Las Cruces NM to south of El Paso that want/need that food source when you buy it PLUS you have to calculate in the costs of shipping down to Laredo. To loose these mares on the S. Texas brush country pastures of any such spread would be the ultimate cruelty - nothing more than slow starvation within easy reach of some pretty hungry coyotes!
I'm a former small time Texas based breeder who has pensioned my one broodmare , now 25YO, to a friend's farm because I can afford to do so. I've spent countless hours, dollars and personal time/effort to assure that each and every foal I bred - and the two QHs I raced (one purchased at auction and one purchased privately off the backside of Sam Houston Race Park) were all placed in good 'after racing' homes that suited their individual athleticism, soundness and temperaments. I specifically sought to find after racing homes where they would be taught new 'market valued' skills and have a 'job', a purpose other than breeding, which therefore - hopefully - would ensure they're being cared for in their new owners' homes. Reality is that today I only know where the one TB homebred foal I humanely euthanized at age 4YO - and the last TB foal, now 8YO - whom I've retained - actually are. I have anecdotal information from friends and internet searches that leave me to believe – and hope - that all but one of the other horses I've bred or bought is in a good and safe place. However: for that one QH gelding I purchased to race at SHRP and sold expressly for pleasure riding ONLY to a woman shown the X-rays/vet report as to his lack of knee flexion from a healed fracture of the knee I know quite the opposite. I was contacted less than two years after he was sold under this disclosure and these terms by a barrel racer/trainer that had apparently purchased him as a prospect from the woman who purchased him from me. She'd paid twice what I had taken for the horse as he had a desirable barrel racing pedigree and good physicals – only to learn from me of his healed injury which she had not been made aware. I was very sorry to learn that she’d not been informed of his limitation and I sadly informed her that it had been my vet’s express opinion that he was not capable of sustaining soundness nor excelling at sports like barrel racing, dressage or high impact sports like eventing, show jumping, etc. and that a copy of his Vet Check report had been included with the X-ray films that I had retrieved to pass on to the first Buyer, along with his AQHA papers. This second Buyer had only his papers. I also offered to pay her what I had received for the horse – cold cash – and to come pick him up the very next day. At that particular time this was all I could do an would actually have been a real stretch for me to take on. She said she'd think about it and get back to me. When I called back less than two weeks later she informed me she'd sold him for 'ranch work' in Brazoria County. She wouldn't share with me the name of the purchaser nor the name of the ranch so I took that as a ‘cover story’ for having sold him privately with his injury again undisclosed or at a local auction. IF the former it would take little time for a ‘rancher’ to realize he had a damaged horse and sell him on, likely at a local auction like Mountain Home; if the latter I'm sure she took a loss over what she'd paid and quite possibly over what I was willing to pay.
I'm here to tell you that as someone who strives to be a 'conscientious' owner it is darn near impossible to assure that each and every horse that enters one's life can be assured even a humane dispatch, let alone a 30 year or more pleasant pastured existence until they die of natural causes. This is not for lack of resources, nor lack of resolve on the ‘owners/breeders’ part – nor is it the result of callous intent or uncaring indifference on the part of those owners/breeders. It is a near impossible task to track each and every horse one has owned or bred to its final resting spot/moment let alone to be aware of/capable of stepping in to 'save' one. Would I step up to the plate if notified that one of 'mine' - whether bred by me or at one time owned by me - were neglected/in danger of being sold for the meat market - HELL YES! Do I have any assurance that I'll get that chance - NO!
Cheers to Mr. Murrell for stepping in with money when needed/contacted! Cheers to Donna and Dallas Keen's program having the wherewithal/resolve to assist these mares to find good homes! Cheers to the Mabee operation for stepping up to the plate for Luxury in Time! The Thoroughbred sport/industry needs to acknowledge, encourage, support and celebrate their committment to the long term well being of our most important product: the horses.
Having a safety net/network is what this industry and the people involved in it need to have in place but the JCA/TOBA/TTA (here in Texas) have largely ignored demand to create such a tracking/notification network and instead support such situations being handled 'ad hoc' by third parties. Those third parties, no matter how well intentioned are themselves ‘driven’ by the need to raise donations from the public at large. This creates a rather critical link to publicists and stories that rate their attention. Some come to the table with their own agenda of branding the TB breeding industry as callous, indifferent to their bloodstock's welfare and/or ultimate disposition in a humane manner, regardless of how much – or little – truth lies in that position. Regardless of how little attention is spent or directed at the numerous other breeds of horse that wind up in these auctions/selling for killer prices and regardless of the number of ‘family owned’ so-called “pet” horses that wind up in these auctions when children grow tired of their pet or go off to school.
I have more questions from first hearing about this story and subsequently learning that the mares are at or will be taken to the Keen’s ranch/re-careering program. I'd like to know: DID anyone involved in this effort to 'rescue' the "Asmussen mares" make an effort to contact the Asmussens at the same time Mr. Murrell was being contacted and ask them if they were willing to take steps - like a reserve purchase price - to protect these mares? Or was it easier for this rescue organizer/activist to operate on the presumption that her spotters were witness to an uncaring act by an uncaring horse breeder? So instead they called in a supporter and of course, The Paulick Report. Is that because the ‘real value’ of the rescued broodmares is in their inherent story worthy connections? It can't be that hard to reach at least one of the Asmussens. Since the Asmussen mares were not likely the only mares put up for auction that day at Mountain Home can I correctly assume that the rescue activist/spotters took the same care/effort to rescue non-TB mares that day? Or are these 'rescue spotters' breed specific rescuers? Were the Asmussen broodmares the only TBs auctioned off for an average of slightly less than $0.50/pound that day? What efforts were made to rescue those other broodmares/horses that sold for “killer” prices on this particular auction day?
Last edited by jellac on Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Pan Zareta
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stlouiskid wrote:How much a year would it cost him to turn out a mare on the huge property they have down there. Not that damn much.
You mean turn them out to graze, grass being the sole source of nutrition? If so, you apparently have no idea how much grazing land per horse is adequate for that purpose in south Texas, even in a year with average or greater rainfall. The Asmussen property's not that "huge". Not even close. A great many horses starved to death in Texas last year because their owners. unable to afford the steep price of hay shipped in from as far away as Alberta, turned them out to fend for themselves on insufficient acreage with little or no edible grass. Personally, I find that more "immoral" than selling for slaughter.
All - a short one here (bet you're all glad of that! LOL) - here' a link to the website page for Dallas and Donna Keen's Remember Me operation for the 9 rescued broodmares -
http://www.teamkeen.com/9rescuedbroodmares.html
They're being placed in new homes at a pretty good clip and the photos show that these mares were not in abused or neglected condition.
http://www.teamkeen.com/9rescuedbroodmares.html
They're being placed in new homes at a pretty good clip and the photos show that these mares were not in abused or neglected condition.
Sysonby wrote:Nice post jellac. A lot of food for thought.
I'll second that.
Paulick and those like him that seem to derive pleasure for being part of the sycophant "caring" elite crowd, should be in court explaining why they should not be paying damages for their slurs.
Madeline Paulson Pickens is another who wants to put wild horses on her land that is as bad as what the government moved them from. She has the nerve to ask the federal government $50 per head more than ranchers get for good grassland. I guess that extra 50 bucks is a special "caring" charge.
There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle.
- Alexis de Tocqueville
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ratherrapid
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and, who knows what the reserves on those horses were and whether the Asmussens would have bought them back. I am with the description of "scum" for those that are trolling the kill buyer lots and pulling out horses for the publicity for their websites.
the OP is on the subject of "overbreeding". personally doubt this applies to TB racing although it might describe some breeding activity at the local hunter jumper barn. If u think about it, what TB racing mares are bred with anything other than the idea of getting a successful race horse. What is done after useful racing seems to me to be complex. Racing ought to avoid the subject. I recall the greyhound adoption programs at the Woodlands. Just fails to work. U ended up with greyhounds stranded in some grandma's living room. With horses u're just giving horses to unsuspecting non-horse people who want u to take the horse back a couple of months later.
the OP is on the subject of "overbreeding". personally doubt this applies to TB racing although it might describe some breeding activity at the local hunter jumper barn. If u think about it, what TB racing mares are bred with anything other than the idea of getting a successful race horse. What is done after useful racing seems to me to be complex. Racing ought to avoid the subject. I recall the greyhound adoption programs at the Woodlands. Just fails to work. U ended up with greyhounds stranded in some grandma's living room. With horses u're just giving horses to unsuspecting non-horse people who want u to take the horse back a couple of months later.
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Pan Zareta
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ratherrapid wrote:and, who knows what the reserves on those horses were and whether the Asmussens would have bought them back. I am with the description of "scum" for those that are trolling the kill buyer lots and pulling out horses for the publicity for their websites.
According to the TX Dept. of Agriculture, Southwest Livestock Sales runs the Round Mountain horse auction. Southwest is owned and/or operated by Dennis Chavez of New Mexico. He has a history of repeated violation of equine transport regulations dating back to when the slaughter plant at Kaufman, TX was still in operation. He is currently under investigation for animal cruelty in NM. Four horses were found starving in the pens at one of his auction facilities there. Animals' Angels brought that situation to public attention and they keep a close eye on the Southwest Livestock auctions. They have worked with Deborah Jones (Thoroughbred Identification Protection and Advocacy) before. I wouldn't characterize either advocacy group as part of the irrational 'humaniac' fringe whose primary motive is publicity rather than animal welfare. There is no doubt in my mind that good cause exists to closely monitor Mr. Chavez's operations.
Pan Zareta wrote:ratherrapid wrote:and, who knows what the reserves on those horses were and whether the Asmussens would have bought them back. I am with the description of "scum" for those that are trolling the kill buyer lots and pulling out horses for the publicity for their websites.
According to the TX Dept. of Agriculture, Southwest Livestock Sales runs the Round Mountain horse auction. Southwest is owned and/or operated by Dennis Chavez of New Mexico. He has a history of repeated violation of equine transport regulations dating back to when the slaughter plant at Kaufman, TX was still in operation. He is currently under investigation for animal cruelty in NM. Four horses were found starving in the pens at one of his auction facilities there. Animals' Angels brought that situation to public attention and they keep a close eye on the Southwest Livestock auctions. They have worked with Deborah Jones (Thoroughbred Identification Protection and Advocacy) before. I wouldn't characterize either advocacy group as part of the irrational 'humaniac' fringe whose primary motive is publicity rather than animal welfare. There is no doubt in my mind that good cause exists to closely monitor Mr. Chavez's operations.
Just to make certain, Dennis Chavez is operator of Southwest Livestock Auction - Round Mountain is operated by Southwest Livestock Sale Company and that is not the same name. Are you sure of what you are saying or is it close enough to throw into the mix? Best I can find out Southwest Livestock Sale Company is operated by The Cass Ringelstein Family
http://www.ringelsteinunlimited.com/horses.html
Southwest Livestock Sales Co has a location in Round Mountain, TX. Southwest Livestock Sales Co has no known officers.
Source: Texas Secretary of State last refreshed 6/23/2012
There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle.
- Alexis de Tocqueville
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pfrsue
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ratherrapid wrote: I recall the greyhound adoption programs at the Woodlands. Just fails to work. U ended up with greyhounds stranded in some grandma's living room.
The best dog I've ever owned in my life raced at Woodlands and came to me via a re-homing organization.
The main greyhound groups are very good at placing the dogs successfully. At the time, there was apparently a lot of dogs coming out of Woodlands, so several were transported by volunteers to other states where they had a better chance of adoption...which was how I ended up with Simon. Thoroughbred re-homing and rescue organizations could probably learn a lot from the greyhound folks.
Jellac, kudos to you for probably the best post I've ever read at PQ. Excellent points, well thought-out, and took the sensationalist OMG! factor out of the situation. Lots of heartfelt common sense too. Thank you.
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Strategic Maneuver
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stlouiskid
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Your post is misguided Jellac. You have a litany of questions for the people who are there trying to save these horses, where are the questions for Steve and Cash Asmussen and their father?
Cash was sued for going belly up on a 3 million dollar loan three years ago. My question is why are you breeding more horses when you can't pay for the ones you already have?
And to the insulting post from the other gentleman, you could not be more wrong. I am in the race horse business. Breed them, race them, sell them, pinhook them. What I don't do is kill them. I am not in the livestock business as you call it. I am in the sport of horse racing.
I plead guilty of being naive, I had know idea people could be so callous. I will be even more diligent in the future as to where my horses wind up.
Cash was sued for going belly up on a 3 million dollar loan three years ago. My question is why are you breeding more horses when you can't pay for the ones you already have?
And to the insulting post from the other gentleman, you could not be more wrong. I am in the race horse business. Breed them, race them, sell them, pinhook them. What I don't do is kill them. I am not in the livestock business as you call it. I am in the sport of horse racing.
I plead guilty of being naive, I had know idea people could be so callous. I will be even more diligent in the future as to where my horses wind up.