Problem is overbreeding....and irresponsibility

[pfrsue]

I am in the race horse business. Breed them, race them, sell them, pinhook them. What I don't do is kill them.

So you know beyond a shadow of a doubt where every horse you have ever owned is right now? (Or if deceased, how and when that happened?) You can check up on every single one of them whenever you like and make sure that they're okay?

[stlouiskid]

Of course not. But I make darn sure when I do sell a broodmare it is going to a good home. I gave away two mares on this site last year. One was a two time stakes winner who made over 200,000 and the other a half sister to a grade 1 winner of the Spinster at Keeneland. Did not like the foals they were producing. I didn't take them to sale that the killers load their trucks up at. I found a good farm for them to go to.
If we could eliminate the theme we are seeing on this board today, that culling means taking them out back and shooting them or sending them off to a processing plant, then I wouldn't really have to effing worry about it, would I.
If you are going to be in the horse racing business, you have a responsibility to find a home for any horse you are done with. Period, or find something else to do.

[Pan Zareta]

Just to make certain, Dennis Chavez is operator of Southwest Livestock Auction - Round Mountain is operated by Southwest Livestock Sale Company and that is not the same name. Are you sure of what you are saying or is it close enough to throw into the mix? Best I can find out Southwest Livestock Sale Company is operated by The Cass Ringelstein Family

My information as to who operates the Round Mountain auction came from a source that's usually quite reliable and has no interest or axe to grind in the matter of the TBs recently rescued there. However, it appears from what you've found that my information may be wrong. Should have checked it myself before posting. Thank you for doing so.

[casallc]

Just to make certain, Dennis Chavez is operator of Southwest Livestock Auction - Round Mountain is operated by Southwest Livestock Sale Company and that is not the same name. Are you sure of what you are saying or is it close enough to throw into the mix? Best I can find out Southwest Livestock Sale Company is operated by The Cass Ringelstein Family

My information as to who operates the Round Mountain auction came from a source that's usually quite reliable and has no interest or axe to grind in the matter of the TBs recently rescued there. However, it appears from what you've found that my information may be wrong. Should have checked it myself before posting. Thank you for doing so.

Thank you for not doubling down on the misinformation. I thought it was a departure from your usual reasoned comments. Too often misinformation and downright lies become the mantra in the debate when it comes to "animal rights".

There are no more vicious and overzealous fanatics than those in the animal rights/animal rescue groups. The Humane Society of the United States (self proclaimed "nation's largest and most effective animal protection organization") scams Americans out of millions of dollars through manipulative and deceptive advertising. An analysis of HSUS’s TV fundraising appeals that ran between January 2009 and September 2011 determined that more than 85 percent of the animals shown were cats and dogs. However, HSUS doesn’t run a single pet shelter and only gives 1 percent of the money it raises to pet shelters, and it has spent millions on anti-farming and anti-hunting political campaigns. People need to understand the insidious agenda behind these nuts that some claim are just "well meaning". Well meaning people have been tricked by evil tyrants since the beginning of time. Sadly, today, it seems the Apostle Paul's words are more relevant than ever - professing to be wise, they became fools .

[pfrsue]

Of course not. But I make darn sure when I do sell a broodmare it is going to a good home.

Then I find Jellac a much more credible source than you are, because he/she has made every reasonable effort to find good homes for his/her horses and follow up on them when possible. It's nice that you found homes for your broodies. How about the pinhooks? How about the foals you didn't like out of the broodies you gave away? If you're not keeping track, you're certainly not part of the solution.

More importantly, I question why you aren't comprehending that if the Asmussen operation intended for those mares to go to slaughter...or simply didn't care...why did they breed them and why did they ship them as far as they did at their own expense when there was a closer option? Jellac's arguments for unintentional negligence are very compelling because of the application of facts and logic to the situation. You haven't applied either. In fact, you contradicted yourself:

For a guy like Steve Asmussen, who is making millions of dollars a year in this business, to send a broodmare he owned to the killers is criminal in my mind. How much a year would it cost him to turn out a mare on the huge property they have down there.

Cash was sued for going belly up on a 3 million dollar loan three years ago. My question is why are you breeding more horses when you can't pay for the ones you already have?

Steve isn't Cash, but you brought both of their names into it. Make up your mind. They have money to support their horses in perpetuity, or they don't.

I personally do not condone the horse slaughter industry, but I would certainly euthanize any horse of mine before turning it out on drought-stricken land that cannot support it, as you recommended. Even a ride on a slaughter bound truck is better than slow starvation.

I would, on another note, be interested to know if the Asmussens advertised any of those mares before sending them to the sale. Does anyone know?

[Pan Zareta]

There are no more vicious and overzealous fanatics than those in the animal rights/animal rescue groups.

You're "preaching to the converted". We raise beef cattle here, part of the livestock industry that's in the trenches taking grenades from animal rights groups. (What's really amazing is how many people have no qualms about repeating the sensationalized propaganda some groups spew, but wouldn't dream of giving up their steak. )

Unfortunately, abuses do occur within the livestock industry, just as they do within most other industries. There are usually governmental regulations designed to protect against this. But field enforcers tend to be few and far between, more often responding to complaints than inspecting for compliance. That's why I believe that monitoring by responsible private 'watchdog' groups can be for the good, although I quite agree with your points about the overzealousness and deceptions of many animal rights groups.

My criticism of Asmussen was limited to his claim that he had no idea any of his consignment might be sold for slaughter at Round Mountain. I find it unbelievable that any Texas horseman would be unaware of the fact that this possibility exists at just about every local auction in the state. However inconsistent it may seem, given the fact that our family business profits off the sale of another species for slaughter, any horses we breed or buy are retired here when their working days are over (currently there are 3 retirees, 22 total). But then we're not trying to make a profit from a horse op, so I'm in no position to criticize anything else he did or said.

[Joltman]

You guys are way off base. You have a broodmare and raise babies, you owe her. To "cull" her as you call it, by sending her off to a meat packing plant is immoral. Some of these mare were six years old for crying out loud. You should not be in the horse business.
For a guy like Steve Asmussen, who is making millions of dollars a year in this business, to send a broodmare he owned to the killers is criminal in my mind. How much a year would it cost him to turn out a mare on the huge property they have down there. Not that damn much. Easier to just eliminate them though. And I still want to know, where are the six foals that were born in the last 60 days? Did they get "culled" also?
Reminds me of the King of the Slaughterhouse, the late Dale Baird. Horses that had the misfortune of entering his barn were pretty much boarding the train to Auschwitz.
This industry could be so much better. Greed and self interest are slowly killing it.

Memo to SLC. Not all buyers at such sales are killers. They have other legit uses for horses.

jm

[erhrdt3]

If that guy with all the mares and foals was overtaxed with these horses, why did it seem they were all rebred back to a stallion named Intimidator? Is he a QH or TB? Why did he breed them and do this?

Inquiring minds want to know. thanks.

[pfrsue]

If that guy with all the mares and foals was overtaxed with these horses, why did it seem they were all rebred back to a stallion named Intimidator? Is he a QH or TB? Why did he breed them and do this?

Inquiring minds want to know. thanks.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/intimidator

Didn't do much on the track but sold for 2.1 mil as a yearling and is the full brother of a winner of 2.3 mil. The Asmussens probably didn't need those mares for their breeding program anymore and thought they might sell better if in foal and with their papers included.

[Barcaldine]

Please note....Steve and Cash are NOT their father.

I respect these two for the professionals that they are. But their dad is in a different league----a much, much lower league. He once shipped a MONTJEU mare I bought in Texas to Kentucky. She arrived days later, near death. Dropped off at 2 am by two non-English speaking drivers. The mare hadnt been fed or watered since leaving Texas. Vet bills to keep her alive were over $10,000. When I confronted Keith about shipping a mare in such condition he said he said he'd check into it. A few hours later he called me back saying he didnt know anything and that it was my "tough luck." Of course he refused to pay the vet bills. It was his tough luck that I didnt pay the Asmussen Horse Transportation bill.

A real crumb.

[erhrdt3]

If that guy with all the mares and foals was overtaxed with these horses, why did it seem they were all rebred back to a stallion named Intimidator? Is he a QH or TB? Why did he breed them and do this?

Inquiring minds want to know. thanks.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/intimidator

Didn't do much on the track but sold for 2.1 mil as a yearling and is the full brother of a winner of 2.3 mil. The Asmussens probably didn't need those mares for their breeding program anymore and thought they might sell better if in foal and with their papers included.

Thanks for the info. Could you imagine spending that much on ONE horse? And then have him not win that much on the track?? Whew, that is the hard part of the "luck" of the sport.

Well I hope we can find out what happened to those mares and foals. Why would he send the mares with a foal at their side and rebred?? It makes me shiver to think of something seriously bad happen to an innocent baby.

[Roger]

If that guy with all the mares and foals was overtaxed with these horses, why did it seem they were all rebred back to a stallion named Intimidator? Is he a QH or TB? Why did he breed them and do this?

Inquiring minds want to know. thanks.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/intimidator

Didn't do much on the track but sold for 2.1 mil as a yearling and is the full brother of a winner of 2.3 mil. The Asmussens probably didn't need those mares for their breeding program anymore and thought they might sell better if in foal and with their papers included.

Did the mares have foals at their sides or were the mares just covered and sent to the sale? I took it that he had weaned the foals.




Thanks for the info. Could you imagine spending that much on ONE horse? And then have him not win that much on the track?? Whew, that is the hard part of the "luck" of the sport.

Well I hope we can find out what happened to those mares and foals. Why would he send the mares with a foal at their side and rebred?? It makes me shiver to think of something seriously bad happen to an innocent baby.

[JimbleBrimble]

Problem is overbreeding....and irresponsibility

Speaking of being irresponsible, a few years ago you were here making allegations of race-fixing where none existed. How does that measure on your scale of irresponsibility?

If you cannot be part of the solution, then at least stop being part of the problem.

[casallc]

Problem is overbreeding....and irresponsibility

Speaking of being irresponsible, a few years ago you were here making allegations of race-fixing where none existed. How does that measure on your scale of irresponsibility?

If you cannot be part of the solution, then at least stop being part of the problem.

Not only that but this is still on the internet:

Contact Name: sylvie hebert
Federal League - Thoroughbred
Location: st-lazare , Quebec , Canada

raced 11 years,172 starts,more than 50% in the money,over $340000, retired sound of body and mind.still loves to work.great shoulder,moves like silk,gentle and calm to ride.+ he is inbred to Hyperion.endurance people:will be great cross for arab mares and he is a distance horse.TB people:how about a bit of soundness and durability for a change?and stud fee is free...complimentary for his first year!

Nothing like demanding people put out a fire the she helped get started.

[ratherrapid]

I recall the greyhound adoption programs at the Woodlands. Just fails to work. U ended up with greyhounds stranded in some grandma's living room.

The best dog I've ever owned in my life raced at Woodlands and came to me via a re-homing organization. The main greyhound groups are very good at placing the dogs successfully. At the time, there was apparently a lot of dogs coming out of Woodlands, so several were transported by volunteers to other states where they had a better chance of adoption...which was how I ended up with Simon. Thoroughbred re-homing and rescue organizations could probably learn a lot from the greyhound folks.

Jellac, kudos to you for probably the best post I've ever read at PQ. Excellent points, well thought-out, and took the sensationalist OMG! factor out of the situation. Lots of heartfelt common sense too. Thank you.

my take is that a "successfull" OTB is much more than adopting horses out. everyone I've "adopted" out or attempt to sell--two months later they call me to take it back. there is simply zero demand for retired race horses. that's the reality. any retirement program is doomed to failure if the goal is to place horses in long term non-neglect homes. Unlikely to happen for any particular horse, and would guess if anybody ever bothered to trace these "adoptees", dogs and horses, the results would be other than pretty.