A word regarding overbilling...Oftentimes it is simply a matter of faulty communication from the barn to the accounting office or an accounting input error. Usually, these things can be straightened out with a friendly call to the accounting office. We had several months where we had to walk the accounting office through each mistake on the bill, mostly being billed for in stall vs in paddock, and in training vs in layup....that kind of thing.
Sometimes, especially during seasonal racetrack changeover, the farms get busy and overloaded on their record keeping. Usually these are not pre-meditated errors, and they can be resolved with a little patience. Once the farm's accounting office knows you are paying attention, your account will usually be flagged to be very careful about accuracy.
In other cases, when the billing doesn't reflect, in any shape or form, the kind of care your horse is supposed to be getting...then it's definitely time to move the horses and get nasty with the farm, including publicly exposing their bad practices so other horses don't get mistreated and/or neglected by the humans paid to care for them.
Maltreatment and Fraudulent Charges at KY Boarding Farms
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
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klbash2000
- Yearling
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:41 am
- Location: central KY
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Hi All,
LSB, your comments are right on the mark.
Know where you're going. Ask prices and services ahead of time. LOOK at the horses at the farm. Ask to meet the people taking care of your horses. Ask how many horses are cared for by each employee. Look at their property. How many horses are there in each paddock. How much room will your horses have. Ask how the farm manages the horses. What do they do if there are personality problems with the horses. Do they rotate the fields, whey and when. Ask to see their feed and hay. If it smells like straw - it probably is. What kind of fencing do they use. Will there be danger for the horses, especially for the young ones.
A showplace is NO guarantee that there will be quality care. Larger breeding farms always have to get seasonal help - and that often means that your horse gets that help.
There are many farms offering quality service at reasonable rates. Do your homework. Madelyn is correct that the farm has the right to charge a bit more for administering meds, etc. That's not gouging.
Ask about their vets. Do they charge a farm charge? How much. I've been hit with an $80 emergency farm charge because the vet forgot to administer a $5/shot the day before (when I got a partial farm charge of $20). A great farm is hurt by gouging vets.
In a decade dealing with my primary farms in KY and NY, I have never had a single issue with a charge on a bill. Not one. LOTS of issues with the KY vet
A farm in NY was charging $12.50/day and killing their clients with phony, garbage and manufactured charges - and the horses had awful care. Their clients were paying $8-$10 a day in these charges.
Know what you and your horse are getting into.
Regards,
Pete
LSB, your comments are right on the mark.
Be your horses' best advocate.
Know where you're going. Ask prices and services ahead of time. LOOK at the horses at the farm. Ask to meet the people taking care of your horses. Ask how many horses are cared for by each employee. Look at their property. How many horses are there in each paddock. How much room will your horses have. Ask how the farm manages the horses. What do they do if there are personality problems with the horses. Do they rotate the fields, whey and when. Ask to see their feed and hay. If it smells like straw - it probably is. What kind of fencing do they use. Will there be danger for the horses, especially for the young ones.
A showplace is NO guarantee that there will be quality care. Larger breeding farms always have to get seasonal help - and that often means that your horse gets that help.
There are many farms offering quality service at reasonable rates. Do your homework. Madelyn is correct that the farm has the right to charge a bit more for administering meds, etc. That's not gouging.
Ask about their vets. Do they charge a farm charge? How much. I've been hit with an $80 emergency farm charge because the vet forgot to administer a $5/shot the day before (when I got a partial farm charge of $20). A great farm is hurt by gouging vets.
In a decade dealing with my primary farms in KY and NY, I have never had a single issue with a charge on a bill. Not one. LOTS of issues with the KY vet
A farm in NY was charging $12.50/day and killing their clients with phony, garbage and manufactured charges - and the horses had awful care. Their clients were paying $8-$10 a day in these charges.
Know what you and your horse are getting into.
Regards,
Pete
Hey...all you easterers and Kentukians paying $10-$12 dollars a day...to put things in perspective, come on out to California, where a paddock, shared with others is $17.00 a DAY; a stall is $25.00 a DAY; and training on the farm is $63.00 a DAY, and all else is EXTRA 
The flys and mosquitos are free!
The flys and mosquitos are free!-
roving boy
- Allowance Winner
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:18 pm
- Location: Kentucky
hi Madelyn
You wrote "FOS, respectfully, we charge $8 to worm a horse, which includes the time to apply the wormer, and note the date, etc., on the horse's health card. When you get the oil changed in your car, you don't just pay for the oil and the filter."
First of all...I suggest you're the exception NOT the rule (as to charges for wormers). I think it's fair to say that a high percentage of farms mark-up the wormer (example: $6.95 equimectrin) to $15 (plus or minus).
I also suggest that your oil-change analogy isn't particulary compelling. When one agrees to an oil change and filter for $18 (or whatever) one knows exactly what they've bargained for...and they're in-and-out for one particular service. At the farm you have a boarder that might be year-round (or maybe seasonal). Regardless...you're charging your client a daily-rate I assume (what a dangerous word)...not for a one-shot quick-lube...in-and-out...see you in 3000 miles service.
With a $6.95 equimectrin wormer, seems like farms often put a "price tag" on the wormer that sometimes seems laughable. I also suggest that "marking-up" veterinary supplies...wormers...etc and administering them might open a can of worms that your attorney might offer an interesting opinion on. Regardless...I'd recommend to make sure that the "care custody and control" policy is paid-up.
Now please don't think for a minute that I'm suggesting that you're not entitled to run your farm as a for-profit undertaking...but I ask you to consider this...do you charge your clients (for your time) if and when you (or an employee) might be asked to hold a horse for the blacksmith. I'd guess the answer is no. And do you "mark-up" the equine dentist if he/she needs your assistance for any reason? And do you charge the client for your time if the veterinarian needs your (or your employees') assistance re: a client's horse. Do you mark-up the halter if a horse needs a new one? Certainly you had to travel to the tack shop to pick it up...but isn't it true that you go to the tack, feed and supplies shops regularly? That's just the way it is in this game.
I say build it all into the day-rate...and I suggest...setting the day rate at a number that makes sense, so that it's not necessary to tag on "mickey mouse" mark-ups and charges (as some farms do) might be the most credible (and possibly appealing to the client) way to do business.
Best to you...I'm confident you do a very good job.
Respectfully
You wrote "FOS, respectfully, we charge $8 to worm a horse, which includes the time to apply the wormer, and note the date, etc., on the horse's health card. When you get the oil changed in your car, you don't just pay for the oil and the filter."
First of all...I suggest you're the exception NOT the rule (as to charges for wormers). I think it's fair to say that a high percentage of farms mark-up the wormer (example: $6.95 equimectrin) to $15 (plus or minus).
I also suggest that your oil-change analogy isn't particulary compelling. When one agrees to an oil change and filter for $18 (or whatever) one knows exactly what they've bargained for...and they're in-and-out for one particular service. At the farm you have a boarder that might be year-round (or maybe seasonal). Regardless...you're charging your client a daily-rate I assume (what a dangerous word)...not for a one-shot quick-lube...in-and-out...see you in 3000 miles service.
With a $6.95 equimectrin wormer, seems like farms often put a "price tag" on the wormer that sometimes seems laughable. I also suggest that "marking-up" veterinary supplies...wormers...etc and administering them might open a can of worms that your attorney might offer an interesting opinion on. Regardless...I'd recommend to make sure that the "care custody and control" policy is paid-up.
Now please don't think for a minute that I'm suggesting that you're not entitled to run your farm as a for-profit undertaking...but I ask you to consider this...do you charge your clients (for your time) if and when you (or an employee) might be asked to hold a horse for the blacksmith. I'd guess the answer is no. And do you "mark-up" the equine dentist if he/she needs your assistance for any reason? And do you charge the client for your time if the veterinarian needs your (or your employees') assistance re: a client's horse. Do you mark-up the halter if a horse needs a new one? Certainly you had to travel to the tack shop to pick it up...but isn't it true that you go to the tack, feed and supplies shops regularly? That's just the way it is in this game.
I say build it all into the day-rate...and I suggest...setting the day rate at a number that makes sense, so that it's not necessary to tag on "mickey mouse" mark-ups and charges (as some farms do) might be the most credible (and possibly appealing to the client) way to do business.
Best to you...I'm confident you do a very good job.
Respectfully
FOS wrote:hi Madelyn
You wrote "FOS, respectfully, we charge $8 to worm a horse, which includes the time to apply the wormer, and note the date, etc., on the horse's health card. When you get the oil changed in your car, you don't just pay for the oil and the filter."
First of all...I suggest you're the exception NOT the rule (as to charges for wormers). I think it's fair to say that a high percentage of farms mark-up the wormer (example: $6.95 equimectrin) to $15 (plus or minus).
I also suggest that your oil-change analogy isn't particulary compelling. When one agrees to an oil change and filter for $18 (or whatever) one knows exactly what they've bargained for...and they're in-and-out for one particular service. At the farm you have a boarder that might be year-round (or maybe seasonal). Regardless...you're charging your client a daily-rate I assume (what a dangerous word)...not for a one-shot quick-lube...in-and-out...see you in 3000 miles service.
With a $6.95 equimectrin wormer, seems like farms often put a "price tag" on the wormer that sometimes seems laughable. I also suggest that "marking-up" veterinary supplies...wormers...etc and administering them might open a can of worms that your attorney might offer an interesting opinion on. Regardless...I'd recommend to make sure that the "care custody and control" policy is paid-up.
Now please don't think for a minute that I'm suggesting that you're not entitled to run your farm as a for-profit undertaking...but I ask you to consider this...do you charge your clients (for your time) if and when you (or an employee) might be asked to hold a horse for the blacksmith. I'd guess the answer is no. And do you "mark-up" the equine dentist if he/she needs your assistance for any reason? And do you charge the client for your time if the veterinarian needs your (or your employees') assistance re: a client's horse. Do you mark-up the halter if a horse needs a new one? Certainly you had to travel to the tack shop to pick it up...but isn't it true that you go to the tack, feed and supplies shops regularly? That's just the way it is in this game.
I say build it all into the day-rate...and I suggest...setting the day rate at a number that makes sense, so that it's not necessary to tag on "mickey mouse" mark-ups and charges (as some farms do) might be the most credible (and possibly appealing to the client) way to do business.
Best to you...I'm confident you do a very good job.
Respectfully
FOS,
Your suggested approach makes sense. On the other hand, some might prefer to pay for a lower day rate and then get an itemized accounting for "extras". That way, one has a RECORD of if and when a horse received its last worming, was last shod, etc. It's much easier for all to keep track of things that way, IMO. And, it gives one the sense, however real or imagined, that the horse is getting more attention that way.
And they call jockeys pinheads -
Final Voyage
- Yearling
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 1:16 pm
I think the itemized expense charge makes more sense too. Most of us like to think our animals are angels, but the farrier, vet, and boarding farm might beg to differ. My farrier charges 24$ per horse to just trim feet. If one of my horses gives him a hard time its customary to add some extra compensation for his time and effort. If the vet worms my horses I must pay the vets charges for his time and the wormer. If i do it, there's still the price of the wormer ($14 for the good stuff that gets tapeworms too) and my time isn't free either.
I agree with the "oil change" analogy. A day rate, wouldn't account for lost halters. Personally i've boarded my horses for a set monthly fee, but shavings or straw for their stalls, vet care, special feeds, or other expenses outside of the "dry lot" rate were my own responsibility.
I agree with the "oil change" analogy. A day rate, wouldn't account for lost halters. Personally i've boarded my horses for a set monthly fee, but shavings or straw for their stalls, vet care, special feeds, or other expenses outside of the "dry lot" rate were my own responsibility.
All Roads Lead Home When You Know Where Your Going... And Sometimes When You Don't!
I don't mind naming names. I live in California. I just got back in the last two weeks two mares each with a foal at their side. Both at different farms but near each other. The one mare and foal was at Cardiff Stud Farm. that mare and baby came back in excellent shape, not a scratch on them. Clean and shinny, mane pulled. In good flesh. Baby was easy to handle very friendly. And excellent care from the staff. No over charges and so on. The other was at Creston Farm. The mare came back "ok" but the baby was still very hairy and thin ribs showing. He had a pot belly and scratches and cuts and hard to handle. Both had been gone two months.
I think I will stick with Cardiff over Creston.
I had two at Tommy Town no problems. They did a great job too.
I think I will stick with Cardiff over Creston.
I had two at Tommy Town no problems. They did a great job too.
Final Voyage wrote:My farrier charges 24$ per horse to just trim feet
Wow, that's actually cheap!! At least where I live!
Just had my two done this morning- $100 for both, just trims.
BUT, on the other hand, my farrier is more than worth it... he straightened out my Morgan's front end over the winter- bad shoeing & hard work where he was being leased before I got him chronically turned his ankles/toes in. And he did wonders with Bell- got her to not tuck her back end under herself- she's so straight now. If I had racehorses, I'd want him to shoe them! He really knows his stuff...
After all the "horror stories", I feel very fortunate that we're able to keep our horses at home!
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Green Hills
- Starters Handicap
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