SAFE Breeding Age????

[BJ]

At what age is it considered "high risk" for a mare to be bred...both young and old ends of the spectrum?

Are your opinions/beliefs/practices based upon experience or advice or just "gut" instincts?

If you have/had experiences with "high risk" breedings/deliveries/pregnancies in mares, please discuss.

Thanks,
BJ

[Mood Swings]

I remember hearing about a pregnant yearling going through an auction I think it is not uncommon for people to breed mares at 3yrs of age and up until they are in their early 20's. I think it depends on the health of the mare etc. Some 3yr. olds are too physically immature to be covered and some 20yr. olds are just too old to sustain a viable pregnancy. The oldest mare I can recall carrying a live foal was 22yrs. I am sure there are other success stories however.

[StealingKat]

Hi BJ,
If horses were bred as nature intended most would be carrying a foal as yearlings. Mustang herds are a prime example. Now, the losses are very high when the foals are born, this is not due to the actual foaling complications but to the "first time mom" syndrome. In breeds other than thoroughbred you will find mares into there mid 20's carrying health viable foals. Morgans and Arabs are a prime example of this. With TB I find each horse is an individual. I have 16 year old horses that look 30 and 20 year old mares that look really young. I think alot depends on care as a youngster and things like that. Ironically the pasture reared horses seem much healthier than the horses who are pampered. I still can't figure that one out yet???

[casallc]

At what age is it considered "high risk" for a mare to be bred...both young and old ends of the spectrum?

Are your opinions/beliefs/practices based upon experience or advice or just "gut" instincts?

If you have/had experiences with "high risk" breedings/deliveries/pregnancies in mares, please discuss.

Thanks,
BJ

I don't think there is such a thing as "high risk" to be determined by age. A mare will not conceive until she is mature. While a young filly might show signs of estrus usually the ovaries are undeveloped. They won't get pregnant until they are ready, that is usually late in the 2 year old year. Most don't breed till they are 3 or older. On the other side I had a mare that had her last foal when she was 30 and died when she was 33. She went six years barren before the last foal. She was pasture bred by a pensioned stud.

[Bondama]

I have a 22 going on 23 year old mare who is pregnant and going just great. Vet said she's perfect and in wonderful condition, etc. It was explained to me one time that being pregnant "keeps em young". Don't know if that is true, but it seems to be the case with my mare, as she is extremely youthful, both in appearance and demeanor. She kicks up her heels and canters around like she's 2! You'd never know by looking at her that she's going on 23. Of course, once she has this foal, I probably won't breed her back again just because I want her to relax and take it easy for her remaining years, however many or few there may be.

As for the other end of this age discussion, I personally wouldn't breed a mare under 5 or 6 years old. Just because she has the plumbing doesn't mean her mind is ready. Imagine a 12 year old girl......having menstrual cycles and the ability to conceive doesn't mean she should. Of course, we all know horses aren't the same as humans <ha!> but I would think that concept could apply to a great degree to any species.

Just my two cents!

[Arctic Cielo]

The oldest mare to produce a stakes winner was 26 at the time. She is now 33. Her name is Mary's Fantasy.

I had all my info wrong so I edited the whole message http://www.barbaralivingston.com/galler ... rysFantasy

[geowarrior]

If I am not mistaken, Winning Colors, who is 21, had a foal last year by Orientate, and is in foal to Mr. Greeley this year. Her progeny record has odd gaps in it, and I don't know if she had a long barren phase or whether she just wasn't bred. Personal Ensign was pensioned in 2006 (last foal to Forest Wildcat 2006) and she is one year older than Winning Colors. Another famous mare is Bonnie's Poker (dam of Silver Charm) who was 21 or 22 when she delivered a foal to Fusaichi Pegasus and suffered complications. This might be an informative case because according to my understanding her owners then wanted to pension her from breeding and donate her to Old Friends Equine. The creditors of the farm took the owners to court, as they considered Bonnie's Poker to be still a viable breeder and hence a financial asset. However, the owners prevailed, and Bonnie's Poker is now retired at Old Friends. My point is, that although I don't know the details of the court case, it seems that in order for the owners to win they were likely able to provide some medical evidence both specific and general that breeding Bonnie's Poker would be high risk.

While these three well-known mares are by no means a statistical sample, it seems that around 22 starts to be a practical limit, which would agree well with the age suggested by Arctic Cielo.

[magic code]

I know of several mares bred at 3 that had safe, normal deliveries the following year. Fertility and breeding soundness seem to drop as the mares get up there in age- they can be bred but it seems like it's generally a little harder to get them in foal AND keep them in foal. A pregnancy can do wonders for an old mare who's not in great shape.

There are ALWAYS exceptions, however.

[llbean]

As for the other end of this age discussion, I personally wouldn't breed a mare under 5 or 6 years old. Just because she has the plumbing doesn't mean her mind is ready. Imagine a 12 year old girl......having menstrual cycles and the ability to conceive doesn't mean she should. Of course, we all know horses aren't the same as humans <ha!> but I would think that concept could apply to a great degree to any species.

Just my two cents!

Hi Bodama,

First off, are you dealing with a slower maturing breed than the Thoroughbred?

Also, here are two points:

1. A 4YO Mare is not the equivalent, Maturity-Wise, to a 12 Year Old Girl. After all, most 12 Year Old Girls are not at their maximun height whereas most 4YO Mares are or are very nearly. In fact, I wouldn't even say that a 3YO Thoroughbred Mare is the equivalent to a 12 Year Old Girl...

and...

2. Well, I know this is an example of arguing from fiction, but Juliet was mentally mature enough to marry Romeo at the age of 12. Also, she stood up to/told off that badly thought out advice giving Nurse really good (mind you, I'm not saying Juliet was real but nonetheless a great playwright like Shakespeare wouldn't have included something that would've stood out to the audience as unduly unlikely to occur in real life in the context of a very Dramatic Scene like the one where Juliet considers her Father's stance in favor of her marrying Paris primarily for his money)...

In other words, just because there is now a perception and/or reality that 12 Year Old Girls are very immature mentally, does not mean its a fundamental constant of Human Nature as Culture plays a BIG role in something like that.

I'd agree that 12 Year Old Girls are by their nature on average less Mentally Mature than older age groups; but the problem is that your view of this issue is getting warped out of joint by the freakishly (by Historical Standards) extended periods of Immaturity now seen in the more affluent parts of the Western World and pretty much the entirity of Japan.

Therefore I see the analogy to Horses as breaking down due to the tremendous influence of Culture on this area of the Human Phenotype (namely the level of Mental Maturity found in certain Age Groups).

Anyway, I'm not sure of the cause but there's ample evidence that foals produced early in a Mare's Production History do better than foals produced later (I'm not sure if that extends to 2YO Mares though as there might not be enough data on that to draw meaningful conclusions).

Someone should really try to dig up research on this and/or do the research his or her self...

Also, the only real problem I can see at this point with breeding 2YO Fillies is that they'll be completely unproven and untested on the Track and therefore very real potential dysgenic influences on the breed (in rare cases I'll admit they'll be a 2YO Filly so well bred and possibly also so good looking that she'll deserve to be bred just off of that, but those are the rare cases, as I said).

-llbean

[marg]

I have two mares that were foaled when their dams were 25.We didn't breed them so I have no idea what shape the dams were in.Marg

[BJ]

I found this link to an equine reproduction board. It seems to bring up the issue of a foal taking calcium and other things out of a mare too young and still growing, thus risking affecting the mares growth and strength.

Most horses are still growing and maturing, well into their 5 year old years. I can absolutely attest to my gelding growing, maturing and "strengthening" from 4 - 6, quite noticeably, and my filly from 3 - 5 years is night and day. So I would imagine the difference (from memory) for a filly, from 2-3 and 3-4, is the most important time for her healthy and sound growth and development.

The other thought I had, through my studies of equine massage therapy and thus, bones and muscles, is that the pelvis doesn't fully mature until between the 3 and 4 year old years. And in class, it was talked about fractured pelvis risks and experiences in younger mares, still growing. So I think the "risk" should be measured with the "end goal", especially if one is hoping to breed a healthy, sound horse. http://www.equine-reproduction.com/boar ... /1246.html

It seems "logical" to me, that the greater care taken with the younger mare, the longer and more healthy the mare's reproductive years, as well as the benefits of passing that health and soundness on to the foals.

Also a link re: bone growth and fusing in horses, as well as an excellent site on other horse issues. The site is owned by Dr. Deb Bennett.
http://www.equinestudies.org/knowledge_base/ranger.html

[madelyn]

I prefer for a mare to be at least four before we breed her, five is even better. It is a question of minerals and nutrition, as BJ pointed out the youngster needs the calcium for her OWN bones. In my opinion, the foals out of 2 or 3 year old mares are less likely to do as well as they might if the mare was already full grown.